6.9 cranking but no start

[rhkcommander]

Glad to hear it. If you've got fuel you just need heat.

You guys could try disabling the plugs and ether (and block heater) but that can be more risky.

 

[david85]

Block heater alone was always enough for mine to fire off.

Are you still running the stock GP Controller? If so, keep a close eye on how long it cycles for. No more than 10 seconds on the 6.9, or it can damage the plugs, even if not right away. I have mine on manual and use only 7 seconds (maybe 10 if we have a cold snap).

 

[MtnHaul]

Even without glow plugs, you should be able to start the engine with a healthy starter, battery, and temps 50 or higher. Yeah there is a lot more cranking but it should fire. I do this with my rig periodically just for kicks.

You could always check out some of the cold start videos on Zip Ties and Bias Plies youtube channel if you want some last resort methods.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

So I wanted to come on here and give a quick update on what @IDIBRONCO and I tested and found out tonight. @IDIBRONCO first started at the lift pump to verify pressure. This was good. Then checked at the Schrader valve. Again good. Then to injection pump. Finally he cracked 7 of the 8 fuel lines at the top of the injectors. Found there is enough fuel pressure to hit the top of the open hood. We attempted several times trying to start it but unfortunately no good. @IDIBRONCO did mention that he thought the starter did sound like it might be getting a little tired but that he still believes it would be enough to start with.

Next we removed a glow plug and found that the glow plug was not ohming out at all. Also it appears that the previous owner put in AC Delco glow plugs previously. So I am going to start by removing the rest of the glow plugs and testing them. Weather seems to be a factor currently. Pretty sure Ill replace the glow plugs with Motorcraft brand.

Block heater alone was always enough for mine to fire off.

Are you still running the stock GP Controller? If so, keep a close eye on how long it cycles for. No more than 10 seconds on the 6.9, or it can damage the plugs, even if not right away. I have mine on manual and use only 7 seconds (maybe 10 if we have a cold snap).

He's got the stock controller unplugged and is using manual control.
Now to add some to Derek's post. I unhooked the hard line from the lift pump at the filter head. I held a plastic bottle so the fuel would go into it. I have no way to measure the volume, but I believe that the fuel would have shot over the top of the alternator and hit the upper radiator hose so I know that the lift pump's good enough to start. I took an injector line off of the back of the IP to check the output. It's been a long time since, I've done that and I wasn't sure if it was enough fuel. I did hold the throttle all the way open while cranking. I unscrewed the nuts from the injectors probably two or three threads. I couldn't loosen #5 because the nut was rusted to the line. He soaked it in WD-40 and we let it sit. When #7 injector hit the bottom of the hood with fuel and #3 hit my nose with fuel while I was standing on the ground in front of the truck, I knew that the IP is putting out enough fuel to start. The glow plug that we pulled out was #1 and it looked pretty new. We pulled it out since we couldn't get any ohms reading on #2 glow plug. The spade was kind of cruddy so there may not have been good contact. I told him to pull the rest of them out and use a wire brush or even some sand paper to clean the spade and the threads to test them again. That's about all we did since it was around 8:30 and it was getting pretty cold. I later saw a sign that said 34* as I was leaving San Antonio. I did suggest the block heater trick to try to start the truck. I don't know if he did that. I hooked my jumper cables to his truck and left my truck running to test the starter. It did make it spin faster. His batteries are new so that fairly well confirmed that the starter is dragging some. The truck had been running when it was parked, there is enough fuel getting to the injectors, the one glow plug that we pulled out is burned out for sure, and since the only way that the injectors can be tested is to pull them out and see if they're pushing out fuel, I'm assuming that they are also in good enough shape to get the truck running. This is why I'm thinking that the glow plugs are bad. The wiring that had been on the manual glow plug control was questionable. What is there now looks good. There is some fuel drain back from the fuel filter so that may explain the less-than-great starter. Between the fuel drain back, and the fact that the glow plug controller may have stuck on, and the fact that the rest of the glow plugs may also be burned out right now, I'm guessing that could be why the truck was parked after the poorly installed manual glow plug control didn't work. I'm not a fan of ether, but we tried a 1 second shot a couple of times. It didn't work so I didn't want to keep using the ether. I said to try the new glow plugs and/or the block heater trick first. If that didn't work, then it was time to decide how much money he wanted to spend on this truck. After the new glow plugs and/or block heater, if the truck acted like it's at trying to start, then it may be time for a new starter. I really do think that this is all the more that it will take to get this truck running. I did see some smoke coming out of the tail pipe, but it was dark and I couldn't even guess at a color with my flashlight. Hopefully, this will be a good runner after a little bit more time. I kept suggesting one step at a time and doing the cheapest one (glow plugs) first. This is so that if it turns out to not be good, there will be less money into it.

 

[Stu Bailey]

Even without glow plugs, you should be able to start the engine with a healthy starter, battery, and temps 50 or higher. Yeah there is a lot more cranking but it should fire. I do this with my rig periodically just for kicks.

You could always check out some of the cold start videos on Zip Ties and Bias Plies youtube channel if you want some last resort methods.

One of the greatest Canadians of all time

 

[rhkcommander]

My old engine wouldn't start reliably with ether either, my guess is they have to have decent compression to make enough heat... but it would light up with glowplugs decent enough till <35F. After that I needed the block heater too or an act from above but that engine was in rough shape!

Haven't tried ether on the new engine to see how well it lights off. Id start with nice new plugs like idibronco says, even a tired worn engine will shake and rumble at minimum even if the starter is half dead.

If you do get it running, and if the compression is low you may be able to reseal the rings doing a hot hard tow. Mine was basically sandblasted by the PO inside so that didn't work for me, but I've heard it does for a lot of guys. Oh and swap to a thinner/synthetic oil for faster cranking. I think I'm running diesel rated 5w-40 since Oregon rarely pegs 100F for long, but we get under 30, especially in the mountains. If the compression is low it'll eat it up faster though so you have a trade off.


Too bad you don't have a manual shifter. You could jam it in 3rd or so while being rope towed and get it lit no problem! Saved my butt a couple times on the old engine, having a buddy or a big hill.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Too bad you don't have a manual shifter. You could jam it in 3rd or so while being rope towed and get it lit no problem! Saved my butt a couple times on the old engine, having a buddy or a big hill.

Since the truck has a four speed trans, I mentioned this, but there was no way that we were going to try it. The master cylinder is full of brake fluid, but the brake pedal just goes right to the floor. I said that it may have possibly done that from sitting and the brakes may come back with bleeding. It would be kind of fun to go back and help more, but since I live 800+ miles away, it's not likely to happen any time soon. He also mentioned that if it won't start with glow plugs, he may try to get Wes to come into town and look at it. he does realize that he'd probably have to pay him to do that. If he could get a trailer, he also may take it to him. He said that he'd call Wes and see what he says.

 

[david85]

Sounds to me like fuel was coming out the tailpipe (in daylight it should appear light grey or even white). I'm still not clear on whether the block heater trick was used. Mine takes about 3 hours to get as hot as it can while plugged in. No harm in leaving it plugged in overnight, since it can't overheat (well, assuming there's coolant in the block...).

 

[IDIBRONCO]

It was light colored smoke. The block heater trick wasn't used while I was there. Derek will have to mention whether or not he tried it later.

 

[dreed86]

I ordered new plugs over the weekend. Parts store said the motorcraft ones would be here today. Just need to go pick them up

 

[Stu Bailey]

Sounds to me like fuel was coming out the tailpipe (in daylight it should appear light grey or even white). I'm still not clear on whether the block heater trick was used. Mine takes about 3 hours to get as hot as it can while plugged in. No harm in leaving it plugged in overnight, since it can't overheat (well, assuming there's coolant in the block...).

When I had my truck in Alaska I used to leave it plugged in for 12 hours or so. I had no idea what I was doing, hurting the truck or anything like that, but the truck ran great every day and even took me across the country to jersey hauling around a ton with no problems. Now I have a timer and I run the block heater for 3-4 hours in the bitter cold. Like you said, I don’t think there’s any harm in leaving it plugged in for a long time, just don’t make a habit of it.
Either way, I’m interested to see what this truck tells us.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I ordered new plugs over the weekend. Parts store said the motorcraft ones would be here today. Just need to go pick them up

Hopefully this makes it start. Then you can start going to the bigger, more expensive stuff. Were all of the other 7 burned out too?

 

[dreed86]

I've pulled out 4 of 8 and four of them so far are bad. I'm going to have to wait till tomorrow to get the next 4 out. That one plug spot filled up with water. So I had to blow it out and shoot some more wd-40 at it

 

[Farmer Rock]

I see some new ZD9s coming! I just changed a set of plugs last week,and I had 4 bad plugs as well. With the manual plugs, you don't notice it as much until the majority are bad.






Rock

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I see some new ZD9s coming!

Since he has a 1986 with a 6.9 style set up, I see a set of ZD1As coming instead.