1993 6.5 problem I've never seen before!

[gearhead143]

Hello everyone,

I'll start at the beginning. My son in-law took his 1993 K2500 6.5t to a shop for a hard start. The shop called him and said he needed the pump rebuilt and new injectors. He gave the go ahead, and got the truck back, in 3 days it was blowing black smoke (never did that before) that would kill every bug for a mile. He took it back, and they said it needed a new turbo, he gave the go ahead again, and in 3 days the problem started again. Back in the shop they removed the waist gate line, and said it was fixed (what a line of BS!) Still has the same problem!

Being they don't live close to me the put the truck on a trailer and brought it to me.

The first thing I noticed when I started it was the Glowplug light was on for way over 10 seconds, (I mean a long time) I finally cranked it, and it fired, very rough idle but smoothed out, it seemed to sound ok so I took it for a drive, if I pushed past 1/2 throttle it would set up a screen of black smoke that would kill every bug for a 1/4 mile.

I pulled the injectors (Have pictures but don't know how to post them) and pump and sent them to DFI in Portland. The injectors were coked up with a white material that I have never seen before. I did remove the glow plugs, and all the tips were gone (controller never shut off) I figured the white dabree was the soadium from the glow-plugs, and this was the problem. I was wrong! Replaced all glow plus with AC Delco and report from DFI was Pump is right on, but injectors are 6.5t but built to 6.2NA spec. They repaired the injectors, and I installed all, and a new glow-plug controller and glow plugs.

All was good when it was fired up and took it for a 30 mile run, it ran great. The next day I fired it up and it didn't sound right. Sounded like it had a injector knock. I drove it just down the street and now I see gray smoke on moderate throttle. Houston We Have A Problem!. I pulled the injectors, and all had that white starting to show around the nozzle tips (#2 was the knock and on test was spraying sideways) the pre-chambers were totally covered in this white.

I sent a fuel sample to ALS for testing ($90.00)and it came back with high silicons 4997PPM but this does not explain the pre-chambers, and new glow plugs covered in this white coating.

Any Ideas?

 

[gearhead143]

OK I think I figured out how to post the pictures of the injectors.

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[tanman_2006]

Ok, so first of all there is no line on the wastegate for a 93 6.5L it is a mechanical wastegate.

How is the trucks timing? What injectors were bought and from where? Why not send them to mel or have mel send you a set?

I have seen cheap knock off injector tips melt w/ high EGT or bad timing (usually it takes awhile though)

Are you running any bioD or other fuel than dino juice?

 

[gearhead143]

Ok, so first of all there is no line on the wastegate for a 93 6.5L it is a mechanical wastegate.

How is the trucks timing? What injectors were bought and from where? Why not send them to mel or have mel send you a set?

I have seen cheap knock off injector tips melt w/ high EGT or bad timing (usually it takes awhile though)

Are you running any bioD or other fuel than dino juice?

Thanks for the reply. I thought this was dead.

This truck does have a pressure reference line from the rear bolt in the intake hat to the wast gate.

I dont have a MT480, but I do Have a Mac Tool diesel inductive timing lite tool. The timing was at 19* BTDC and I couldn't rotate the IP far enough to get 2* BTDC. I pulled the timing cover today and found the IP drive gear timed correctly, but the chain had so much slack that I measured 9* of slack at the crank. I installed a new timing set, and will finish it tomorrow.

I did clean the pre-chambers as they were coked with so much of this white carbon that the holes in the cups were almost closed. Then I ran a compression test. All cylinders were 350lbs to 365lbs. I figured it was a little low do to being cold and carbon chips possibly on the valve seats. The compression doesn't bother me as this morning when I started it to bring it into the shop it was 29* and when the glow plug light cycled off I hit the starter and it fired right up and idled OK.

On the injectors and IP I have used Mark and Kyle at DFI in Portland, OR for over ten years and they have never steered me wrong with their work OEM or performance, these are great people to work with.

I feel the timing is the problem. I had a MT480, but loaned it out and never got it back lesson learned! I am not sure how accurate the inductive timing method is? But must be pretty close.

As for fuel, he told me that he was running what is at the pump which is 2% to 3% BIO by law here in Oregon. I sent a fuel sample to ALS and the report came back, NO additives, silicates (dirt) High, BIO 2.5%, other then that, over the road diesel ( what I call CRAP today) so I have to rule out fuel.

I will post a picture of the pre-chambers

I should have it up and running tomorrow and will fill you in on what happens.

 

[gearhead143]

Here is the pictures of the Pre-chambers.

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[tanman_2006]

I have never seen a boost referenced turbo on a stock 6.5L. There are also no replacement turbos with that description. Get a boost gauge and check the boost. I doubt you needed a turbo, I have 2 w/ over 300K miles on them and they still boost just fine. I replaced seals in one and rebuilt the other in under an hour.

The issue I see is a problem with bad fuel. I know you said you tested it but thats what it looks like. Timing doesnt sound right, I hope the timing chain fixes the in accuracy.

 

[lindstromjd]

Well, maybe it's just me, but since when does a 6.5 have a timing chain? Granted, I've only been into one, and it was a non turbo Goodwrench engine that blew a HG, but it was still set up the same as my old 6.2's with gear to gear timing.

Never seen anything like what you're showing with the pictures though. Just sounds and looks weird.

 

[tanman_2006]

Well, maybe it's just me, but since when does a 6.5 have a timing chain? Granted, I've only been into one, and it was a non turbo Goodwrench engine that blew a HG, but it was still set up the same as my old 6.2's with gear to gear timing.

Never seen anything like what you're showing with the pictures though. Just sounds and looks weird.

Those timing gears are no longer sold and were a $600 upgrade a few yrs ago. They came from the factory with chains.

Source Unknown

 

[79jasper]

All one's I've seen have chains. Replaced one back in the day.

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[lindstromjd]

Those timing gears are no longer sold and were a $600 upgrade a few yrs ago. They came from the factory with chains.

Source Unknown

Huh... so why don't more 6.5 guys tear down 6.2's and get their timing gears? I've never liked timing chains, on anything. They're a weak link.

 

[tanman_2006]

Huh... so why don't more 6.5 guys tear down 6.2's and get their timing gears? I've never liked timing chains, on anything. They're a weak link.

6.2 and 6.5's ALL come from the factory with chains. I've never had a 6.2L with gears already in it.

 

[gearhead143]

I have never seen a boost referenced turbo on a stock 6.5L. There are also no replacement turbos with that description. Get a boost gauge and check the boost. I doubt you needed a turbo, I have 2 w/ over 300K miles on them and they still boost just fine. I replaced seals in one and rebuilt the other in under an hour.

The issue I see is a problem with bad fuel. I know you said you tested it but thats what it looks like. Timing doesnt sound right, I hope the timing chain fixes the in accuracy.

Well you are right, 93 never had boost reference waist gate. Why this was done I'm not sure, but it's there. I am wondering if it is a actuator from a 95 or a custom unit. there is a boost gauge in the truck and when I drive it tomorrow I will do some testing.

I did drain and flushed the fuel tank, lines, and installed a new fuel filter. The fuel I drained looked very yellow and when I dumped the fuel into our waist oil tank it pored more like cooking oil than #2 diesel. It upsets me that I paid $90.00 for ALS to test it, and tell me its #2 highway diesel.

Its all back together. After priming the fuel system (IP lined up with timing cover) it fired right up, and just had a wisp of exhaust smoke. It was hitting a little hard till the cold start advance came off, idle dropped down and idled very smooth. I didn't have time tonight to put the timing light on it (will do that tomorrow) but I can already tell its running way better then it was. I have a lead on a MT480, but for now Ill have to trust the timing light.

Heres some pictures of the Turbo

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[79jasper]

Pics not working for me.

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[gearhead143]

Pics not working for me.

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Ill post them again

 

[gearhead143]

Turbo pictures