1990 Ford Bronco 4BT swap

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
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Parts and upgrades

It's funny: when I have time I don't have much $, and when I have $ I don't have much time.

Haven't made much progress in the way of actual fabrication on the Bronco lately, but I did order some goodies.

RuffStuff Dana 60 and Sterling 10.25 diff covers:

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RuffStuff 6" RSK for the Sterling:

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RuffStuff Sterling rear disc brake kit:

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I am very impressed with the quality of all of the RuffStuff items. The diff covers are 3/8" thick, the D60 cover weighs about 25 lbs. and the Sterling cover weighs about 40 lbs. The RSK brackets are 3/8" thick as well; they are well-built and super stout. The rear disc brake kit brackets are 3/8" thick (notice a trend here?) and look like they will install fairly simply. All of the hardware included is grade 8. ;Sweet

Borgeson steering shaft:

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Yukon kingpin rebuild kits and Warn 35-spline hubs:

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I don't think these new Warn hubs are going to work with the Dana 50 spindles that I got from a '97 F250 (the way the hubs engage the spindles on the '97 Dana 50 are significantly different). Which means I may have to adapt the dually hubs from the Dana 60 I already have or get a new set of spindles.

Also, I had planned on using Reid Racing bronze upper kingpin bushings. However, ECGS states, "designed to replace the OEM nylon cone bushings in severe-duty applications where the OEM bushings succumb to accelerated wear and premature breakage. Bushings are designed specifically for rockcrawling, rockracing, and other extreme off-road motorsports. Designed to be used with aftermarket adjustable-preload highsteer arms or shimmed "spring eliminator kits" instead of the OEM spring and cap retainer." High-steer arms are nice, but that's extra $ unnecessary for this build. I looked around fairly thoroughly for a kingpin spring eliminator kit and I couldn't find any mention of them anywhere.

Redhead steering gear:

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USA Standard gear 35-spline stub shafts. I was going to use chromoly shafts, but decided against it when I saw the price difference. Realistically, this BKO will be on the road 90% (or more) of the time. If I break these, I'll upgrade:

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ECGS kingpin removal tool:

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This is a nice tool, but unless you're planning on rebuilding kingpin Dana 60s for a living, I'd pass. I misunderstood the listing on the ECGS website and thought I was ordering both this and the allen wrench. The cost was almost $40 shipped.

I also upgraded my MIG setup. I was using .035 Innershield flux core wire, but got tired of all the splatter. So I picked up a 150 cu/ft cylinder of Ar/CO2 75/25 mix, along with both .030 and .035 solid wire. I've been running the .035 and practicing on some 1/4" scrap steel I have laying around. It welds so much cleaner than the flux core. Since I now have a bottle to go along with the welder, I bought a cart to keep it all together and have it mobile. Much nicer to move around.

I also found the steel table you see in the picture below (to the right of the MIG cart) on craigslist. It has a 3/8" top, much thicker than the sheet metal work bench I was using before. I just need to get a oxy/acetylene torch, and the majority of my steel-working tools will be complete.

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I still need to put an order in with Artec for the D60 and Sterling trusses and front 3-link kit, but I've made some decent progress on parts acquisition... now I just need to find the time to get this put together.
 
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laserjock

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If you are running a KP 60, the spindles and axle shafts are the same DRW or SRW. The only thing that is different is the hub itself. I think even the brake caliper and rotor are the same. On the older 50's the hubs are the same as the 60 but the spindle is slightly different. I took the hubs off my 91 D50 and put them on my KP 60 and it all works great.

Hope that helps you out.

When I bought my KP tool from east coast gear, it was piece of hex rod that had been sawed off and the ends touched with a grinder. I was not real pleased about that for the price.

To do the KP's, I'll pass this tip along because it helped me so much. Take a cutoff wheel and cut all the way around the kp just above where it seats on the knuckle. Don't cut all the way to the hex, just in I don't know 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch if I remember right. Take that tool with the impact gun and hammer the thing down tighter, then reverse it and it will spin right out because you have taken the torque load off the KP by making that cut. 20 minutes first side, 10 for the second.
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
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Dana 50 and 60 cap assembly comparison

If you are running a KP 60, the spindles and axle shafts are the same DRW or SRW. The only thing that is different is the hub itself. I think even the brake caliper and rotor are the same. On the older 50's the hubs are the same as the 60 but the spindle is slightly different. I took the hubs off my 91 D50 and put them on my KP 60 and it all works great.

I may have used incorrect terminology; I am referring to the hub/rotor assembly from the 1997 F250 Dana 50 SRW that is different than the DRW Dana 60 that I have (from what I have read, I have the 1985-1991.5 F350 Dana 60). I removed the cap assembly from the Dana 50 and the way that the hub/rotor assembly is machined is different than the Dana 60 (may get pics of that later).

On ECGS' website, they list these hubs as "Dana 60 35 Spline FORD & GM 1 TON 76-93 PREMIUM HUB SET." The date was an oversight on my part. :rolleyes:

There are only three bolts that connect the cap assembly to the hub body assembly on the 1997 Dana 50:

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On the DRW Dana 60 I have, there are six bolts that match the Warn cap:

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It is hard to tell in the pic, but the Dana 50 cap assembly is shaped slightly differently. It flares out where it mates to the hub/rotor assembly; on the Dana 60 it does not.
 

laserjock

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But the cap bolts into the body of the hub. The body of the hub is held in by the retainer ring. You may be fine since your new hub should have come with a matching center section. As long as the spline counts and diameters of the hub and stub shaft are the same I think you are good??
 

BrandonMag

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I'll get some pictures this weekend to show what I mean. Hopefully, I am wrong and what I have will work.
 

subway

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But the cap bolts into the body of the hub. The body of the hub is held in by the retainer ring. You may be fine since your new hub should have come with a matching center section. As long as the spline counts and diameters of the hub and stub shaft are the same I think you are good??
I agree, the hub screws don't go into the wheel hub. They should bolt into a matching ring that fits in the wheel hub that should have come with the hub set.

I went from 5 bolt iirc automatic hubs to 6 bolt manual ones. The profiles were very different but the spline and diameter fit were the same.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
 

BrandonMag

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I agree, the hub screws don't go into the wheel hub. They should bolt into a matching ring that fits in the wheel hub that should have come with the hub set.

Correct, the cap assembly screws thread into the hub body assembly.

I didn't do a very good job of explaining it in my earlier post: it appears the hub body assembly of the Dana 50 mounts into the hub/rotor assembly differently than the hub body assembly mounts into the hub/rotor assembly on the Dana 60. The way the retainer ring holds the hub body assembly is different... at least, it appeared to be when I looked at it a couple of days ago.

I'll post some pics up tomorrow or Sunday to show exactly what I mean.
 
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BrandonMag

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Hub comparo

As promised, some pictures.

Here's all three hub bodies, 1997 F250 Dana 50 on top, 1985-1991 Dana 60 in the middle, and the Warn 35-spline on the bottom:

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Here's a profile shot. Warn on the left, Dana 60 in the middle, and Dana 50 on the right. Notice how much taller the Dana 50 hub body is?

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I took a lot of pictures comparing height dimensions, but I'm not going to post them all. Suffice to say, the Dana 60 31-spline hub body and Warn 35-spline hub body are pretty similar and the Dana 50 is not.

Here's the back side of the three. First is the Dana 60:

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The Warn:

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And the Dana 50:

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As you can see, the back of the Dana 50 hub body is significantly different. It has a recessed plastic doohickey that the other two don't.

Now, here's the Dana 50 hub body mounted in the Dana 50 hub/rotor assembly:

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Dana 60 hub body mounted in the Dana 50 hub/rotor assembly:

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Warn hub body mounted in the Dana 50 hub/rotor assembly:

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It's pretty obvious the Dana 60 and Warn hub bodies don't seat in the Dana 50 hub/rotor assembly like the Dana 50 hub body does.

Here's a shot inside of the Dana 50 hub/rotor assembly. As you can see, there's a c-clip a little ways down the stub shaft:

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That is a different spot than where the Dana 60 stub shaft has it's c-clip. There's no groove for a c-clip in the same spot:

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I haven't taken the Dana 50 hub/rotor assemblies apart yet, so I suppose there's a possibility everything will work out. I'm not holding my breath, though.
 
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laserjock

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So if I'm following correctly, you are putting a KP D60 in your bronco correct? Is the problem that you don't have the hubs and spindles for it? The Warn locking hubs should work dandy in a set of hubs for a SRW D60. Your D60 was a DRW. The only thing you need to change it and use what you have is a set of SRW hubs. I'm sure someone would trade you straight up (with maybe a little extra) a set of SRW hubs for your DRW hubs. Anyone who has a junk older D50 around has a set of hubs you can use I'm 99% sure. I believe from the locking hub up to but not including the spindle should be the same on both axles.

Is there a specific reason you want to use the new oddball D50 hubs?

Thanks for the pictorial demo. I had no idea there were any differences. Have to file that away.
 

BrandonMag

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So if I'm following correctly, you are putting a KP D60 in your bronco correct?

Yep.

Is the problem that you don't have the hubs and spindles for it?

Hub/rotor assembly; correct. Spindles; I 'm not sure yet.

Is there a specific reason you want to use the new oddball D50 hubs?

I bought the Sterling 10.25 out of a 1997 F250 because I wanted the later-gen Sterling with the upgraded longer pinion and VSS (so I could use the PCS trans controller for the E4OD). The guy I bought the Sterling from threw the Dana 50 in for free. (As we all know, Dana 50s are pretty much worthless to most people.) I'm not dead-set on using these hub/rotor assemblies, but I thought I could since I have them.

Thanks for the pictorial demo.

You're welcome. Hopefully, this information will help you or someone else down the line.

With all of this being said, I'm still not 100% sure they won't work. One of the guys on 4BTSwaps told me the Warn catalog only lists one hub set for the 78-97 3/4 and one-ton Fords. My plan now is to disassemble the Dana 50 and see if the hubs will physically fit on the Dana 60. There may be some more research I need to do. I'll keep you guys apprised of developments as they occur.
 
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BrandonMag

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I got the chance to spend some time in the garage today, tearing into both the Dana 50 and 60. It appears that in order to be able to use the Warn hubs, I'll need to use the hub and spindle from the Dana 50. What's interesting is the spindles are basically the same, but the Dana 50 spindles nuts are completely different. With the Dana 60 spindle nuts on the Dana 50 spindle, it looks very likely that I will be able to get the Warn hubs to work.

There are some differences: the '97 Dana 50 rotors are 13" and the late '80s kingpin Dana 60 rotors are only 12.5". The caliper assemblies are completely different, but my thinking is that I may be able to install the Dana 60 rotor on the Dana 50 hub. I'll use the Dana 60 calipers on the Dana 60 knuckles; basically, all that will be different will be the hub and spindle from the Dana 50. Based on first impressions and rough measurements, it should work.

So far, the only snag is removing the DRW Dana 60 rotor from the hub. Unlike the Dana 50 (and, I assume, SRW Dana 60s), where the rotor is attached to the hub by eight lug studs and the root of the hub pressed in to the rotor, the rotor is actually bolted to the hub. To say these eight bolts are frozen by almost three decades of rust is an understatement. You can imagine how much fun I've had trying to separate the two. They're soaking overnight in Corrosion X. Hopefully, tomorrow I will be able to get 'em separated and see if my hybrid hub/rotor assembly will work.
 

BrandonMag

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I got the Dana 50 torn down and the rotors off the Dana 60 hubs. The rotors need to be turned down, they're in pretty sorry shape.

The good news is it looks like the Dana 50 spindles and hubs with the Dana 60 spindles nuts and rotors will work!
 

laserjock

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Srw rotors are real expensive. Might be worth going new. Got mine from Amazon I think.
 

BrandonMag

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Srw rotors are real expensive. Might be worth going new.

The rotors of the DRW D60 hubs still have .100 of meat left. New rotors may not be expensive, but to get these turned is only $25. Plus, I was already going to the machine shop to get my new stub shafts pressed on to the axle shafts.
 
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