1978 F150 Turbo IDI build

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by TurboSurge, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    4AD73C72-C76D-4215-975D-B38F26622486.jpeg EC7803DB-7C0A-46B4-9756-14B53495AA73.jpeg 7E9E24F2-EDD8-419A-AB09-4303556442FB.jpeg 835AA9A9-09F8-405F-96FC-4E6FD748E9AF.jpeg So here’s something I’ve been working on. I bought my ‘78 F150 XLT Ranger from the guy who drove it off the lot. It was all original with 152,xxx and even had the original floor mats and service records. It sat for 6 years until I saw it and offered the guy $1,000 and away I went. Surprisingly, all I had to do to get it running with a new battery, fresh gas, and alittle down the carb and on the 5th or 6th try it bombed right off. It was my dream to get one of these and for less than 1100 bucks a dream came true. I changed all the fluids and filters since they had sat there for so long and drove it for awhile until I had the great idea to put a diesel in it. It was powered by the OEM (numbers matching) 400 paired with a C6 Trans and the NP205 TFC. It got about 10 or 11 MPG and was completely untouched. Even had the OEM oil bath air cleaner on it. Attached are pics of what it looked like when I first got it. I changed the oil bath for a paper due to the fact that An old guy said if it backfired than oil would go all over the engine bay.
    More continued on next post.
     
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  2. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    573CE6A1-0DA9-4993-BFD8-95C11E94687F.jpeg 1E05E1B2-C6DD-4E8B-805D-2A983301AA01.jpeg 0F3391A2-5E2C-4C2F-A49A-13471ACD5E63.jpeg DF181EA7-58D2-4B10-940A-DB58F26AC140.jpeg 1C485162-AC3E-45E8-9F9A-192A1BD05585.jpeg I went ahead an picked up an 86 6.9l,T19, and a BW1345 from a guy for 200$. I got it home and saw oil seeping from the back of the heads. Further inspection shows the heads are flat and the HG might of been original. I tore the engine down and checked for cylinder ware. It had a slight amount but it still had the cross hatching so I wasn’t worried. The guy (a friend) said the engine ran great but he was putting a PSd in his truck. I ordered studs and a complete regasket set from rock auto and cleaned the frame while I waited. There was so much oil and build up on the TFC cross member but there wasn’t any rust to speak of. I finally got all of my gaskets and studs and than proceeded to the assembly. I used a bottom end tap on the stud holes and made sure they were clean before installation. I rebuilt the heads and was wanting to do 910 valve springs but money (my wife) limited my spending. The bare necessities is all I was allowed. So of course, twin turbos are just that. I found two HE351CW ‘s from an 06 Cummins that I feel will do a great job. The exhaust housings are 9cm with a 4” down pipe. I have gotten the engine all together and the trans as well. My truck had the c6 but I am installing the t19. Luckily, the Bw1345 has the adapter on the front so all I had to do was swap it for the one that was already in my truck. I had to notch it for my TFC linkage but that was easy. So now I have the engine assembly complete, trans all together, and all of the wiring done as far as oil psi coolant and IP. I located the batteries in the bed to make more room for my turbos and everything. For that I just used the factory battery cables from a donor truck. also from the donor I got a radiator, 8 BB code injectors, Newly rebuilt IP, alternators, starters, clutch pedal assembly along with hydro clutch. I want to install a hydro boost but I haven’t found one. What I am waiting for now is to set the engine in and make my engine mounts Along with the placing of my turbos. They aren’t really that big but I feel as though the down pipe (aleast for the drivers side) is going to be a pain. I’m doing a custom intake as well but I’ll post more pics when I get to that point.
    Also, how do I get the pics to post after I get done typing? I’ve tried to post them before I write but they still go in front of my writing.
     
  3. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Welcome to he forum! That’s a cool project you got there. When you upload the pictures, click on the place you want them to go and hit full image next to he photo you want to insert, don’t hit full image at the top it will insert all the pictures, just do one at a time.

    Gonna take a lot of fuel to spool those turbos and a studded 6.9 can’t take a ton of boost just an FYI. What kind of pump did you get? Just stock rebuild?
     
  4. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    Thanks for that! The pump supposedly was modded for more fuel. Who knows really unless you take it apart. I am looking at getting a stock 94 IDIT that I’ll build. For that I’ll get Typ4 to grind a cam and I’ll stud it too. I would really like to find a moose pump and sticks for that too. On that build I was thinking about a 6.0 VGT maybe. I have a lot of turbos so I guess I’ll just figure that out when it gets here but for right now this twin turbo 6.9 is what I’m doing. I was wondering about the amount of drive pressure/ flow it would take to push these HE351’s. I only want 10-12 psi from each of them so a total of 20-25 psi in the engine. The compression is good so I was thinking about using GP dummies. They use them on newer engines and with good compression, I don’t see why I would have starting issues. The reason I was thinking about those is because it would drop the CR. I don’t know how much or if any though. If anyone had some insight on that please chime in.
     
  5. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Several people have dropped the CR of these engines with only poor results. My shop truck has glow plugs in it and no harness, starts up great but it’s 100+ here and it’s a fresh engine.

    I’m assuming you’re building those he351s to be a twin setup? If so you won’t need 15 psi from each you will need 25 psi from each, and you will only have 4 cylinders feeding those turbos. Granted psi=restriction to flow, so since you have twice the volume flowing into the intake you will see higher pressures than a single he351, but you will have half the drive feeding them.

    I think for that boost level and your power goals, you really only need one he351 to get there.
     
  6. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    I’m not sure what you meant here. If I have 25 psi from each turbo than I’ll have 50 psi of boost total. Right? The studs wouldn’t hold up to that so I’ve heard? I was meaning that I wanted 10-12 psi of boost from each turbo to have a total of 20-25psi if they were tied together. I have thought about just one but do you think it would be enough for super low rpm and wot rpm? I don’t know what their range is but I know an idi has a lot more volume than a 5.9
     
  7. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Having two smaller turbos in a twin configuration works the same as a big single. The intake charge won’t compound like you are saying, since the same amount of restriction acts on both the turbos, so even if one is flowing 250 cfm, and the other 450 cfm, both will read the same pressure, since pressure is directly related to restriction.
     
  8. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    So I could run 25 psi in the drivers intake and 25 psi into the passenger? I’m sorry I’m really confused.
     
  9. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    I'm no turbo or boost theorist, but maybe I can help a little bit. One thing that he's saying is that you won't get as much boost out of each turbo in a twin setup because there will be only 4 cylinders pushing each turbo instead of 8 pushing one. The 4 cylinders can't "push" each turbo as "hard" as 8 will. Kind of think about push starting a car, You can be the only one pushing and you could eventually get it up to enough speed to start. Now you have someone else helping you to push that same car and it will get up more speed, quicker than when you were by your self. Pushing the car by yourself is like pushing a turbo with only 4 cylinders instead of all 8. The limiting factor here is engine speed. Since they turn such a relatively slow RPM compared to a gas engine, your total boost achieved will be limited to a certain amount of total boost. if you use 25PSI for an example. That is your total boost put out by the turbo. Now if you take that and divide it in half by using two turbos, then you'd only be looking at 12.5 PSI of of each one. Half of your cylinders can't work a turbo as hard as all of them can. Now Thewespaul, was I even in the ballpark here?
     
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  10. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Well said, @TurboSurge clarified in a pm that he wants to run the two turbos completely seperate, so two independent intake manifolds.

    This means that he will have two boost readings, and like @IDIBRONCO said I think the 351s would be too big for a twin setup, because you would effectively only have 3.45L or 210 ci feeding each turbo, so much smaller than a 5.9. If you want to go twins I would go with a cheap pair of T04Es, with some polished covers and billet wheels they would look great, and since they are a much smaller frame they would spool much better in the twin setup.
     
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  11. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    Just a thought, I have two hyper max turbos but I’m not sure what size the exhaust housing is. Also, what is the effective drive pressure and exhaust volume of a stock 06 5.9? I’ve always heard “50 psi in a Cummins is a hell of a lot different than 50 psi in a PS” or IDI in our instance, still being V8. Also I’m doing custom exhaust manifolds, what ID should the runner be? The oem log is 2 3/4” iirc
     
  12. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Drive pressure has a ton of variables so its really hard to give a single number saying a X truck makes this pressure and Y makes this. That being said, these IDIs have much better flowing cylinder heads than any 5.9, but the 5.9 comes with a larger turbo from the factory. Running that single turbo that 5.9 makes 325hp/610tq at the crank, the turbo idis were rated at 190hp/390tq. Assuming both trucks were setup by the factory so the turbos operated in their efficiency range, and since air flow=power in these diesels, it would be safe to say that a single he351 would carry an idi to the 300hp range. So two of those turbos, would have to be in the 600 hp range to be in their efficiency range, which you would need to run two of the largest IPs available just to get close to supporting that power, so hopefully that gives you an idea of why the he351s as twins are just too big.

    The hypermax turbos are interesting, they made two different frames as I recall, one for intercooled kits and one for non intercooled. That turbo spools alright as a single, I have a customer that is running one with an intercooler and he is making around 22 psi with it, I think they would be a good option as twins but only after you build the IDIT, those turbos matched with around 180cc would be a riot.

    For the manifolds, 2 3/4 is probably fine, but I think 2.5 wouldnt restrict it any, and its a more common size and would fit in the engine bay much nicer. You want the pre-turbo exhaust side to be a bit tight to keep the velocity up, I would design it in a way that you can get exhaust wrap on the whole manifold and up pipe, makes a big difference in these idis that make a lot of heat.
     
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  13. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    Awesome! You give a lot of great info! What thickness should I go for? I’m making them from stainless steel. I won’t have a problem wrapping them but I don’t want them to burn out or split anywhere
     
  14. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Thicker is better, easier to weld and holds heat and weight better. Really up to personal preference
     
  15. TurboSurge

    TurboSurge Full Access Member

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    I’ll send you some pics when I get back to the shop of what I’m looking at using for the custom manifolds.
     

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