6.9 IDI injector pump timing

Hey guys well I took your advice and was going to send out the injection pump on the 6.9 IDI to get rebuild. I found a considerable oil leak between the pump housing (aluminum piece with oil fill spout) and the rest of the motor so I took it off to get surfaces cleaned and put some new sealant on it. I also found out that the was only ONE loose nut holding the IP to the housing! (previous owner nelegance, i just got the beast) that probably explains the smoking and hard starts. Anyways while the pump and housing were removed the injector pump gear got moved Now when I put it back on it'll be several teeth off. I've heard nightmares about people having to pull the whole front of the motor off to get the marks on the gears realigned. I am willing to try anything else first. My mechanic buddy says that if I can get cylinder 1 to TDC on the compression stroke the gear will be perfectly aligned with the marking on the top middle. I've also heard of people using little tiny mirrors to find the mark but I don't see how you could get anything down there, let alone see it. How can I get the 2 gears realigned? Any suggestions appreciated!

First OUCH this is not a good situation and one that comes up all the time.

Gary will chime in with his picture/s that shows the alignment of the gears with NO cover on!

For what you need to do you will have to remove the valve cover on passengers side.

This shows you when the #1 cyl has both valves closed.

Now line the timing mark on the harmonic balancer as shown in the following picture for the ZERO mark.



That will get you to TDC and timing marks lined up. Now for the next part I'll have to let Gary or another chime in as I do not have those pictures

Hope this helps

Al

Thanks. Also do you know where the injection pump gear mates in relation to the wheel with the dowel pin? Piping hot mess I made haha but I've learned my lesson

wabashofutah said:

Thanks. Also do you know where the injection pump gear mates in relation to the wheel with the dowel pin? Piping hot mess I made haha but I've learned my lesson

Click to expand...

Yes/no in answer to your question, I know but Gary's picture or who's ever it is has a very clear answer to your question.

Timing_the_6.9-7.3_IDI_101.pdf

Take a look at this pdf:

Timing_the_6.9-7.3_IDI_101.pdf

It's not that difficult. I learned another trick recently. You can "feel" for the "Y" on the cam gear with a dental pick.

bbjordan said:

Take a look at this pdf:

Timing_the_6.9-7.3_IDI_101.pdf

It's not that difficult. I learned another trick recently. You can "feel" for the "Y" on the cam gear with a dental pick.

Click to expand...

OUT FREAKING STANDING!

Well to the original poster.. You made a smelly by moving the gear and not being at top dead center. Now care must be taken about the gear timing marks. The cam gear has two completely differant timing marks. The "Y" meets to the "Y" on the injection pump gear that you removed. The DOT mark meets up with the crank gear DOT. You can see this in the pics I took many years ago. Really the most difficult problem is knowing your at top dead center. With the dampner marks showing up like has been posted there is a 50 50 chance your 180 degrees off time. these engines will run that way but run poorly. The idea of a dental pick to "feel" for the DOT or the "Y" on the gear is a great idea. Another way to know your at top dead center is remove the number one glow plug and crank over the engine but do not have your finger on the hole. Theres 500 lbs of air coming out of that hole when both valves close at bottom dead center of the stroke. Use a remote starter to crank over the engine so you have some control. Here is the picture and what the injection pump gear must look like when its properly installed. You can use a felt tip sharpi to make a line from the top of the gear to the bottom of the gear. Then place it in the cover. As its sitting ingaged on the cam geaqr use a square to insure its straight to the top of the engine block. I recall someone once posting there are 17 teeth from the "Y" mark counted up both sides when the gear is positioned correctly. You can see the line at the front engine cover lip. Another nice thing is the front cover has a small cutout in the top center to hold the gear cover that the injection pump cover bolts to centered on the block. Its kind of an alingment guide for the aluminum gear cover with the oil fill spout on it..

icanfixall said:

You must be registered for see images attach

Well to the original poster.. You made a smelly by moving the gear and not being at top dead center....

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Gary that's funny,

Who's image is this cause NOW I HAVE IT! It's going in my repository of photos so I can throw it up.

Gary that PDF file is quite good. Take a look at it.

Thanks for the response, I was waiting for you to throw that up so I could pinch it

This is my photo taken when I rebuilt my na 7.3 into a turbo 7.3 engine.. Then that engine burned down when a freeze plug let go because the crappy shop installed brass plugs and not the factory stainless steel plugs and they didn't use the special tool to install them. After that melt down I replaced the rods and main bearings and the pistons. I also found an oem cam with all the thrust and gear installed for $99.00 on ebay... So I bought that and installed it because it had the upgraded gear on it. The gear in this pic is the gear that causes a balance issue at idle. The new gear has no threaded or drilled holes to remove it from the cam but they are still easy to remove with a gear puller with the legs turned out to grip the insides of the gear. If you wanted this pic all you needed to do was ask for it... I give pics away for free.. Another item about this pic. I may not have explained about the sharpi mark on the gear. Look at the gear alignment in the position its in. From the "Y" make a mark all the way to the top of the gear. This is the line or mark you want to square up to make sure your in the cam timing mark "Y". A right angle scale or as some call it.. The triangle square is used to find your correctly set. Counting up 17 teeth from the "Y" is another way to insure your correct. Make a mark across the gear from the sides counting up 17 teeth. All this must be done at number one top dead center. Also the original poster asked wheres the drive pin location. That too is easy to see in this pic I posted. Now I understand some may wonder how I can say for certainty that I know I have my enfine in the pic at top dead center number one and not top dead center of number 4 cylinder. I know because I didn't have the heads on the engine and there is no way I could have the timing marks mixed up. The "Y" are together as are the DOTS marks. therfore this engine clearly shows the timing marks in relationship to all the drive pins and gears. And lastly something about the gears seen in this pic. Both the injection pump gear and the cam gear have the same amount of teeth on them which is twice the amouunt of teeth found on the crank gear. You can count them if you want but scinece will tell you what I just posted is the truth. If it was not then the injection and valve timing would run off out of time. then valves hit pistons. Injecters wont get fuel at the rite time so nothing works at all. The cam and injection pump gear turn at half the rpm of the crank. Thats the nature of the 4 stroke engines. I hope this was not to tecnichle for some but I tried to make is simple..

Once you have the bottom end of the engine aligned there is another procedure you might follow. This was posted long ago by Ziggster40, who is lurking around here somewhere.


"[FONT=&quot]What you do is lift off the injection pump cover and then the gear. Find the "y" mark at the bottom which points to the tooth that is supposed to align with a dot on the cam gear below(the one you can't see when it's assembled. From that tooth, you count up the gear towards the top on both sides 19 teeth. Put a mark on the 19th tooth on each side, then scribe a line between the two. This line will now run across the front of the gear, and be just above the deck when the gear is lowered into position. You can easily tell if it is out one tooth or not as the line will not be level with the top of the block. You can then lower the cover onto the gear all the while watching the mark to see it doesn't move. Too easy!!


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Once you have that done, and gear tower housing bolted down, the rest is pretty easy. There is only one way the IP can bolt to the gear wheel due to the pin. Install the IP and get it timed.

Read Mel's Article on the Fuel System. When all is said and done, repeat this mantra over and over again, "I will not remove the gear tower housing ever again. I will not remove..."

Thanks for all the input guys, got it figured out! Unfortunately though it runs the exact same!!! Good fuel, new pump and injectors, return lines, i'm just running out of options here. The oil is pretty dirty and of course I'll change it before I sit back and enjoy running through that 5 speed but I doubt that would account for the hard starting. The smoke maybe? So with the fuel system overhauled and the timing marks aligned I thought it would at least run ok? Which it's not, It's still no easier to start and still smokes enough to completely smoke out an intersection. I've been dreading this but... could I be looking at an engine rebuild? I do have some blow-by in the oil fill neck. Hoping it could be a simple valve adjustment and not the whole deal with pistons, main seals, etc.. Give me everything you got guys. Preferably the cheapest options first.

Have you checked for fuel leaks?
-check lift pump out. It is located on the passenger side....lower part of the engine There is a weep hole on it and if you see any fuel leaking from it, time to replace! A weak lift pump can cause hard starts, loss of power, and excessive smoke in some cases.
-check for any other fuel leaks as well.
-have you changed your fuel filter recently?

Now with the new IP.
-Did you have it timed? An IP that is too advanced/retarded may experience excessive smoke and/or starting issues. Like stated above, if that IP gear doesn't get lined up with the cam gear, you are in a mess of trouble, for that is not the correct way of removing the db2 IP.
-Did you change the injectors too? Bad/worn injectors will also cause excessive smoke and rough starts

As far as adjusting the valves, there is no such thing with these engines. They have hydraulic roller lifters that keep the valvetrain components tight.
If you can, I would perform a compression test on each of the cylinders and post back with the results.

Still trying to acquire a compression tester... I've heard that these need a higher compression tester as a usual 300 psi automotive one won't be enough? One thing to add-If it's been running for awhile and I shut it off, then try to restart it, it cranks REALLY slow vs cranking speed when it was cold. I know the starter motor is good and it cranks really fast like it should when it's cold. Is this just due to the engine being pressurized or could this be a sign of another issue?

*Update* HOLY HELL IT WORKS! Thank you guys so much. Having never worked on a diesel in my life and not even knowing what glow plugs were you have taught me quite a bit on here. That engine no longer intimidates me. Turned out the pump was not properly rebuilt. Got it exchanged and everything works wonderfully. I never ever could have guessed that these old N/A 7.3's paired up with a 4 door long bed F350 could go so quick and hard! And sound so MEAN the injector pump explains it all. Ready to learn about the more complicated powerstroke another day...

I love happy endings.