Newbie diesel owner need help/advice/do's & dont's!

[AaronG]

Hey all. Would first like to say, this forum is absolutely awesome. I bought my very first diesel truck the other day, and im getting mixed feelings on my choice. Its an 89 F350 DRW 7.3 N/A /E40D. Im in the process of starting a very small auto transportation company, and im hoping everyone here will give me some kind of good news. First off, got some major? minor? issues with this truck.

It WILL start, with some ether. Sometimes on its own power, this truck was sadly very abused by its last owner(s).
Blows a heap of white smoke, idle & warm doesn't matter. Im pretty sure its fuel related due to it doesnt evaporate like a coolant steam would.
Idles decent, will not rev to save its life. Hits about 2k and completely falls on its face, sometimes stalls after letting go the gas pedal.
Im sure the trans is shot. It will drive but barely feels like its going to jerk your back till it snaps going through gears

I've found a few problems, like bad/wrong batterys and one is missing the ground wire so its not even getting a charge from alternator. Another, i yanked a fuel injector, tip looked pretty black with carbon. Truck won't go over 35-40mph before falling on its face completely and dying. (Sound like fuel starvation?)

I threw some dieselkleen in the tanks, but unfortunetly since it can't be driven like this ill never get enough miles on it to let it burn through the injectors/engine.
Let me ask you guru's this please.
Is changing the $300/set of injectors going to be worth it? Will bad glowplugs make the truck impossible to start even in 75F+ weather in California. I think the motor has good potential to run great again, i just dont want to spend $1000's to get it there.

I know your all going to tell me "get a different truck/motor combo" but that is just flat out not an option right now. Starting this business off my lousy $18/h job working as a diesel retrofitter will not pay the bills and get the overhead costs of the business down where i can manage them until my business starts pulling in profits. So final Q!
Will this old 7.3L IDI be able to pull a 40' PJ flat bed, weighing right around 7500lbs unloaded. With 1-2 cars and or light duty pickups on it? I only need this truck to get me through maybe 6-12 months of service before i throw a down payment on a bigger more powerful rig. I will be staying in California only for atleast 1 year from business start date, will she do it?! Please i do love this old Ford, as i own many Fords but this being the first diesel rig. I'd love to save her if i can without going bankrupt. Thanks a ton and great advice you guys all give to people here from what ive been reading your all very knowledgable

 

[towcat]

welcome to the board. I hope you will spend much of your time combing through the archives. there's much to learn.
i'd like to hear the reasoning behind your choice of power unit as your first truck. Before all that, I hope you have a class A commercial license in your possession, because without it you aren't going anywhere. At least, with the combination you are looking at.

As far as the truck you have purchased, you need to do some more diagnosis to see if the motor is worth sinking money into.
once you get it fired up, take the oil filler cap off and check for how much blow-by you have. if there is a small presence but does clear up when you bring the rpm's up to 1000, you have a motor that's worth working with. your smoking and stumbling is a clear indication your injection pump is done. there's no amount of additives that can fix the issue short of a pump replacement. at this point you minus well replace the injectors too. you will have two choice for quality parts. the first seller is "typ4" in Oregon. the second is "Connestoga diesel" in PA. Do your homework to figure out who you want as your supplier. both are top notch sellers. You can and will find it cheaper through ebay sellers, but you will take a serious gamble on the quality of product.

I too have made a living with a naturally aspirated '89 f450 for 10 years. I had an active towing business from 1993 to 2003. the business still exists, but I use it as a backup to an autobody and repair business. I do keep the old girl around and run calls with her every now and then just to prove to myself I still can do the job.
Personally, I applaud your choice in power unit. although I'm not a fan of the automatic trans. fortunately, the price on Zf manual trans is coming down a little in price. The F350 will not wind many horsepower races, but the combo is easy to fix and you can stock spare components cannibalized from lighter trucks without a whole lot of capital outlay. you can't say that for any of the two other makes. Many of the locals who are on this board, will tell you I have enough spare parts to rebuild four trucks completely. when your life is dependent on a truck being on the road packing miles on the ODO, this platform is one of the best for a guy with limited capital but a intense ability to be able to fix anything on the truck.

enjoy your stay here, there's much to learn. here's a pic of my '89 waiting for me to take us back out on the road once again.

 

[Wyreth]

I know your all going to tell me "get a different truck/motor combo"

SIR, if you think that, you've come to the wrong board!

No really, it won't do it fast, but it will do it, and do it for a really long time. Are there better combo's out there, well yes, but we here happen to like OUR motors quite well, and think rather highly of their capabilities thank you. =P (altho, you'll want to add a turbo if you can eek one out of your budget after repairs)


Ok, joking aside. You're in a bind, Towcat hit all the high points. (pay attention to the license bit, that's REALLY important)

Read through the entire "tech section" there is a HUGE amount of info here, and VERY IMPORTANTLY before you buy ANYTHING, check the hall of shame. There arn't many places to buy parts for these rigs, and some of them we've been bitten by. Learn from our mistakes.

 

[fordf350man]

welcome, and almost everyone on here loves there old idi diesel and wouldnt trade it for anything, keep that engine it will last you forever, only thing i would ever change is a 5 speed but that is just personal preference

 

[icanfixall]

Welcome to the forum. Your chosen work platform will get the job done but you need some questions asked. What gears are in the rear end. If they are 4.10 then its a better choice than the 3.55 for the load you plan towing. As for the miles on the injecters and injection pump we have not seen that posted by you yet. Anything over 125,000 miles is concidered worn out. As towcat mentioned. Those two people are the best for parts and prices plus they are long time good members of this board. I really feel the pump and injecters are worn out from what you have tols us so far. As for the neck cracking trans shifts, that sounds like the throttl positioning switch or tps for short is bad or not calibrated correctly. Thats the switch on the drivers side of the injection pump. With the engine wram the key is switched on but engine is not running. The center wire in that plug needs to show voltage between .96 to 1.2 volts at the idle setting.. Hope this heps you along the way. If you replace the injecters and injection pump please ask how to before doing so. The aluminum housing the injection pump bolts to is never to be removed for any reason with the injection pump still attached to it. That will ruin the gear timing and be hard as hell to fix.

 

[riotwarrior]

Welcome to the board...THE OIL BURNERS board...the best place for support and help and info on these trucks!

NOW ***..tell you to get rid of your truck, why would we do that? We applaud your choice and are here collectively to help get you going with the least amount of capitol outlay! Let's see any dealership say that...!!!!!!

Most everyone has hit the key points and are all right on track with suggestions and so forth for the truck. If you are familiar with Fords check the door tag and find out what Axle code you have and determine gearing if you can.

I'd strongly suggest a set of Glow plugs, BERU/Motorcraft ZD9's along with an IP, injectors and a return line kit for sure, as well as all new fluids and filters!

It wouldn't hurt to do a compression test on the engine if you can or get one done as well. That tells a bunch about starting ability and so forth.

With only one battery perhaps your starter is struggling to turn it over fast enough to light off properly as well, and on top of that, the starter could be weak from being under powered and worn out. Food for Thought, see the hard start thread currently running too!

With your goal of towing, one suggestion I'd like to encourage you to do is look strongly at hydro boost brakes from an F450/Super Duty, that would really help you out a lot in the braking dept. Just look at the active thread on it and see what's been said. Does not matter how fast you can go, however it sure does make a HUGE difference how quick you can stop!!!

As previously said, check out our FAQ section and the Tech Section and Hall of Shame as well! All important places to look and lots of info to be had.

These trucks and engines are super simple to work on so don't be intimidated by it, and we are here to help.

Again welcome to OB

Al

 

[Agnem]

Welcome to the forum. Don't discount the FAQ's. Read them all or at least gloss over them so you can know what kind of info can be found in there. Basically, there are two approaches to restoring one of these trucks to their former glory. The best, and recommended way, is to throw a bunch of money at it. Change all fluids, replace the fuel system, Exhaust, refresh the suspension, repair any known leaks, drop and clean the fuel tanks, and replace any failing senders, repair any questionable wiring, upgrade the running lights and headlights with relay supported circuits. Doing all these things as part of a massive project will get all the work out of the way early, and you will be rewarded with reliable running for a long time. The other approach is to nickle and dime your way through the truck, working on it or putting up with issues on a mostly daily basis, until it has beat you into submission and you decide to get another vehicle. Some people combine both techniques. It's really up to you. But your comment "the truck was previously abused", tells me it will be someone like my sons $1200 truck. It took a year and a lot of time and attention to get it to be a reliable daily driver which he is proud to own today. These trucks treat you as well as you treat them, that's for sure!

 

[TronDD]

Will bad glowplugs make the truck impossible to start even in 75F+ weather in California.

Welcome and all that...

I'll throw in what I didn't see mentioned already. Yes! These motors need the glow plugs working to start. Don't burn up your starter trying to crank it without working glow plugs and don't blow the thing up with ether.

Also important for these trucks is that there be no air in the fuel system. If you have leaks and/or are pulling injectors, you might have air that needs to be bled out. If you're tinkering on the fuel system, remember to bleed the air out.

Good luck. I fought with issues on my truck for months and have only really put it to work once and that was enough to be worth it. (Recreational use, not business, so your ROI may vary )

Tim.

 

[AaronG]

I appreciate all the kind words and advice, really makes me stepping into this venture and with this truck of all things a big mind settler. As for why i chose this truck? I love em. Ford all the way, love the bodies/engines/sounds/squeaks lol. I have an 87 F350 SRW with the 460/C6 quad cab long box 4x4 here as well. Shes my big baby! Just eats 10x more then a baby.

This 89 F350 7.3L has looks to be about 160k on the clock. Purchased from some ghetto wanna be bus charter in Oakland,CA. Standard cab, has a butt ugly utility bed on the back which im in the process of yankin off. Waitin on the torch >

So bad glow plugs will stop this motor from starting even when its warm outside? And it sounds to crank pretty good, maybe its just flat out not fast enough? I do know these things have rediculous compression ratios so it would take alot to fire em up but it sounds to crank healthy. If i can figure it out i'll post a pic/video or something of it. As for the class A license, im aware of it =( just one more thing to add to my list of "To Do's with No time to do it!"

 

[idi_econoline]

Hey, there, Vacaville! I'm about 50 miles east of you, and there are others on this board even closer to you. Welcome to an excellent forum and community!

If you were going up I-80 east of Auburn on a regular basis, I'd question your choice of power a bit, 'cuz that kind of serious tonnage at altitude with an NA will make for quite an experience in coal smoke, ultra-slow speeds and high powertrain temps.

And, yes, agreeing with Towcat. Those transport guys with the huge trailers and maxed-out duallies are Class A, and subject to everything commercial haulers must endure. Hoping you know that the Cordelia scales are known to be rather thorough in their duties. I know guys with smaller rigs who get the green arrow in the wee hours of the morning.

The senior members have already pointed you in the right general directions, though ether into these engines can be VERY dangerous. One functioning glowplug can light up that ether in a deadly way!

As for glowplugs affecting startup, I have found that one bad glowplug can make for quite a bit of extra cranking. Can't imagine having 2, 3 or more bad ones!

A bad E4OD can make your life miserable. Most of this trans went on to become the successful 4R100, but the parts that didn't may be what's ailing in your trans. Rebuilds are VERY pricey, but at least they (hopefully) include the improved later parts. Then again, bad sensors and such are often the issue, but sleuthing that stuff takes an experienced brain.

Keep us posted, AaronG. Wishing you luck on several fronts, as a Ford IDI is a magical beast. I have an unhappy exhaust valve (and a sickly 2nd vehicle) keeping me close to home, but I'm hoping we'll meet up someday, with both our IDIs purring along!

EDIT: Originally said 50 miles WEST of you. I don't swim well at all!

 

[towcat]

This 89 F350 7.3L has looks to be about 160k on the clock. Purchased from some ghetto wanna be bus charter in Oakland,CA. Standard cab, has a butt ugly utility bed on the back which im in the process of yankin off. Waitin on the torch >

So bad glow plugs will stop this motor from starting even when its warm outside? And it sounds to crank pretty good, maybe its just flat out not fast enough? I do know these things have rediculous compression ratios so it would take alot to fire em up but it sounds to crank healthy. If i can figure it out i'll post a pic/video or something of it. As for the class A license, im aware of it =( just one more thing to add to my list of "To Do's with No time to do it!"

for diagnostic work, I'd use ether. going contrary to popular belief, I use ether on my trucks once the glow plugs die. your comfort level on dealing with the product will determine if you are going to use it long term.
if your true goal is to determine if the motor is worth putting money into, check the blowby and oil loss areas. that will determine if your motor has been abused or not. ideally you should have 300 cranking rpm in order to get the motor to fire. I don't use glowplugs or ether in the summer down here in the SJC area.

 

[idi_econoline]

.......your comfort level on dealing with the product will determine if you are going to use it long term........I don't use glowplugs or ether in the summer down here in the SJC area.

Have only used ether on Detroit 2-strokes, Towcat. No glowplugs, no problem! I'll leave it to veterans like you!

And yeah, here in the often-hot valley, I must admit I don't really wait for the glowplug cycle, starting "cold" in the afternoon.

On the flip-side of that, AaronG, we did have a relatively icy winter last season, so a real coldstart solution is a must. Starter wear on these beasts is a real concern. (22:1 compression on the 7.3, BTW)

 

[AaronG]

Right-O!
Yea this truck is realllll rough. If it werent for my love of old fords i would'a taken it the junker already. I only paid $700 for the entire truck, it drove from Oakland to Vallejo,CA doing 45mph until that narly marine world hill by the rest area on I-80. Then it sputted to 35 and slower and slower till i wasn't comfortable making her push anymore haha. I pulled off and had it towed the rest of the way to save any further damage to that engine. It would be a pleasure to have you swing by and take a looksy, if and when you get the chance. I'm in the out skirts of vacaville, off I-505/Midway RD. Let me know if your interested in checking it out i'll shoot ya my contact info. Again thanks for all the info guys, been a big help. I blew my *** of cash buying the truck at last minute, so repairs have to wait till payday =(

 

[idi_econoline]

Ouch, AaronG! I know that hill well! Over to the right and flashers on! And that tow was probably close to $700 for the 15 miles or so. Good call.

I know your area well. Used to have a deliv route into downtown 3 times a week. I like Vacaville quite a bit.

A fluid change all around is where I'd start. New fuel filter also; who knows what it's full of. Be sure to read the cavitation article. Coolant with SCAs are a must for these rigs. ( I use Fleetcharge) One of the many things I've learned from this forum. These engines like to form head gasket leaks at the rear of both heads.... learned that one the hard way.

Glow plugs easy enough to check. Set your multimeter to ohms and check the unplugged glowplug for continuity. If it's an open circuit, it's dead. The connectors can be replaced with butt connectors.

Four years later, I'm still one (more) engine pull away from getting my beast done. Wish you better (and less expensive) luck with yours.

Yeahyeah, let's keep in touch, and pls do keep us all posted. Many (all?) of us were where you are right now.

 

[AaronG]

I'm familiar, but not with the codes inside the door. Which #'s are the axle code? & is there a place i can decode it to know which rear-end it is? I hooked the second battery up, when i jumped in today and the battery voltage was obviously low i ended up finding a spare battery terminal in my toolbox! Thank gods for spare parts lol. It did make a huge difference, she fired without cranking for days on end first and didn't need ether. Still blows white smoke of course, and it smells like a gas engines "richness" it'll make your eyes water. It still took about 2 cycles worth the cranking to start, but thats alot better then the 4-5 breaks in between atleast that i was doing before the second battery hooked up. Making slow progess and i'm already loving this truck that, i think i've got the diesel bug =D