diesel run away tonight while going down the road

[warhog]

called the guys at the shop and explained the cruise control is theory...no cruise control throttle cable is hooked up. So that theory is out and we're back to square one.

oil was apparently very overfull. but i'm still not convinced on it being the problem if the key off did actually work once last night, and worked this morning.

also,, engine temp light apparently stays on non stop. Even right at start up. gauge reads fine. i'm assuming no big deal, and told them to focus on the runaway.

icanfixall - you mention the governor springs...according to alldata, there was an update to them for our pumps. the tech last night suggested jasper may not have used the update part, but instead used left over stock. Possible? i'm going to call jasper myself, as well as a local diesel shop and get some opinions.


edit: thanks so much lcam, i really appreciate you taking the time to do that. i'll head over there tomorrow and have a look for myself.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Okay if the engine oil is overfull you may have just found your issue. So from reading Gary's post, I am thinking it can be the IP but leaning more towards the engine oil being too full. Either way, I would pull that engine out and take it back to Jasper. It is probably toast. Did you say the engine came with an IP already on it?

 

[warhog]

engine came complete, so yes with a rebuilt IP. Just had to install my old sensors, and bolt the thing in my truck basically. Oil was drained this morning to proper level, and they have been tinkering and testing it since with no further run aways or sticking. The pattern is broken when I realize that last night, we were on level ground when it ran away...A few of the guys are thinking the oil is was caused it, however some are unsure. As am i...The smoke last night was also BLACK. not gray or white. Black to me is fuel. not oil.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Yeah typically when diesel engines run away, the exhaust is a dark gray and it just pours out if it is running on it's own oil. Either way, I would send back that engine because it is considered a manufacture defect.....if, in fact, the runaway was not caused by overfull engine oil. Damage has already been done to that idi.

 

[Dave 001]

< and why the hell would it not just kick into neutral? >

Because the clutch would not disengage. If you don't unload the gears in the transmission, you are unlikely to get the synchronizers disengaged. Diaphragm clutches are known for not disengaging when they are operated well above their design speed. This holds true all the way back to the '60's when GM started using them. Back then, many GM drag cars lost races because the driver could not shift the transmission because the diaphragm clutch would not disengage. Ford and Chrysler were still using either long style and/or Borg and Beck clutches and they did not have this problem. Obviously, the manufacturers have figured out how to make diaphragm clutches work but get them well above their design speed, they still have problems.



< Now what? >

I'm thinking stuck governor linkage in the injection pump. The fuel shut off operates against the governor linkage. If the linkage binds or fails, the fuel shut solenoid cannot push the linkage and neither can the governor. Oil from the CDR is possible but on a fresh tight rebuilt.....not likely.



< hitting the throttle pedal and letting go a million times, to see if maybe the pedal is just stuck >

Even a stuck pedal won't do what happened because the governor will limit engine RPM to approximately 3400 no matter where the pedal is. The governor over-rides the throttle pedal (if working properly).



< Once you stuff in the clutch and take it out of gear and into neutral, you no longer have the ability to stop the motor by putting a load against it >

Screw the engine.....it's nothing but a piece of iron and can be replaced. My head/arm/leg/life/whatever can't be. Same holds true for the by-standers.




< Thats a cable or injection pump problem > < Check for a broken IP pump level return spring. > < Dont think it was a cruise problem >

Not a cable or spring or cruise control problem because (same as a stuck pedal) the governor should limit the speed.




< Unless you have the air filter housing off the intake and a piece of wood large enough to cover the intake opening if it runs away agin >

This won't stop these engines. They will still get plently of air thru the CDR and possibly crankcase oil making the situaction worse.




< The bill I paid to them today should have been enough for the shop to SERIOUSLY test it and make sure it was perfect before handing me the keys. They will get an ear full tomorrow. >

Don't be ******* the shop. They could have put 10,000 issue free miles on the truck without a single problem. Issues like you had are very random.




< The mechanic did say it sucked it to the floor. I don't know the mechanics of runaways, so i can't pin point the reasoning there. >

Failed governor linkage can do this.




< oil was apparently very overfull >

If this was the problem and oil was getting to the intake thru the CDR, the intake will have a heaving coating of crankcase oil. Have a look and see what you find.




< Damage has already been done to that idi. >

Agreed...100%. At the RPM's you are talking about, valves were floating and hitting pistons. Without a doubt, insist on a new engine. That one's damaged.


And lastly......Glad you are OK. Not that there's a good way to go meet your maker but that way would sure suck.

 

[icanfixall]

Well the problem with blaming the run away on too much oil is who put the oil in the engine.. That person or company is responsible for any and all problems... If, and only if thats what caused the over reving issue. Installing another injection pump and testing it will be about the only way to know for sure whats happened. As for damage from valves touching pistons.. That may have happened but if it did you will feel a poorly running engine because the valves probably are bent and not sealing off at the seats properly. So don't jump to that conclusion too fats. If the intake is not covered in engine oil then the over full oil is not the problem for run away. Were back to the injection pump. If the oil was over full did the lift pump fail or did the guy filling the engine with oul make a mistake.

 

[Dave 001]

As for damage from valves touching pistons.. That may have happened but if it did you will feel a poorly running engine because the valves probably are bent and not sealing off at the seats properly.

Only if the valves are bent bad. If they are only bent a little bit, you may not even feel it because the leak will be minor. But 10,000 miles down the road after the small leak has burned the valve & seats into a big leak, you'll know it. No matter what the root cause of the problem is, I'd be getting a new engine. Especially a Diesel. They just aren't designed to run that fast.

 

[Kalashnikov]

Shop can't even put the correct amount of oil in! I wouldn't trust them to touch the truck.

If the truck is all full throttle the pedal is going to go down due to the IP be gear driven. I've also had a faulty high idle solenoid cause this issue. The let off the pedal and it doesn't release.

BUT at the same time when you bring in a vehicle that has certain issue that relate to safety such as the cracked firewall/clutch issue and ignition not always working, that is why shop don't like working on old vehicles. Those are pretty serious thing. If you cant positively shut down and engine, **** like this is going to happen.

Bottom line is they made a simple error and burned up your engine. Get your money back and go somewhere else.

 

[itsacrazyasian]

A jasper rep came by my shop a few weeks ago and asked why i don't purchase reman diesels from them.... I've had one too many issues with jasper remans, especially their e4od transmissions...

 

[Exekiel69]

engine came complete, so yes with a rebuilt IP. Just had to install my old sensors, and bolt the thing in my truck basically. Oil was drained this morning to proper level, and they have been tinkering and testing it since with no further run aways or sticking. The pattern is broken when I realize that last night, we were on level ground when it ran away...A few of the guys are thinking the oil is was caused it, however some are unsure. As am i...The smoke last night was also BLACK. not gray or white. Black to me is fuel. not oil.

If the engine came COMPLETE with the IP installed by jasper I would NOT touch it and don't let them walk You with testing it or fixing it, they have to give You a replacement engine bc it came complete from them and You haven't even worked it and had it installed professionally by a shop not in Your backyard. This engines from jasper cost about $6500 with the installation fee from the shop, after all that money You want a replacement not a fix and pray for the best. Be firm and accept no less, they will try to get You to accept to take it to one of their approved shops and have it checked.

 

[icanfixall]

Worrying about bent valves with no proof od that is silly. Knowing you have valve to piston top damage is priceless. Wondering why this engine ran away is still up in the air. Its being fed more fuel and the govener is not limiting the engine rpm.. Thats still a fact. Was it from too much oil splashing up and being sucked in the intake and being burned as unregulated fuel... Possible.. Has the injection pump got a problem... Possible... Are you going to determine if there is piston to valve contact... Probably not... At least not without pulling the heads and checking the piston tops and removing EVERY valve to see if any stems have even the slightest bend in them. Will Jaspers stand behind their warranty if they know someone overfilled the oil pan... Nope... Will they give you another injection pump after they hear what has happened without knowing about the oil... Nope. How much extra oil was drained off is another question too. I'm sure the problem is fuel getting to the engine and the injection pump could not handle the rpm run away. Nothing else makes much sence to me. We have run plenty of examples of why this has happened. Clearly the run away was unregulated fuel going to the engine... But how.... I'm still with the injection pump being bad. If the pump was good any type of stuck throttle would be fine and the pump govener would have limited the rpm to redline maximum. No run away would have happened even with a bad ignition switch and a flexing firewall along with a bad cruies control. Any good working injection pump can be throttled to wide open rpm and it will not over rev because the pump is operating properly. Would I do that to prove this thought... Nope but that me.. I wont free rev any engine till it wont turn any more revs. Is it safe to do that... Yes but that does not mean we should do it all or any time too...

 

[warhog]

If the engine came COMPLETE with the IP installed by jasper I would NOT touch it and don't let them walk You with testing it or fixing it, they have to give You a replacement engine bc it came complete from them and You haven't even worked it and had it installed professionally by a shop not in Your backyard. This engines from jasper cost about $6500 with the installation fee from the shop, after all that money You want a replacement not a fix and pray for the best. Be firm and accept no less, they will try to get You to accept to take it to one of their approved shops and have it checked.

I took the truck back a few hours ago. They have been un able to replicate the issue since draining the oil so I took it back to get a second opinion somewhere else, that specializes in diesels. Quickly looking it over, I don't see a second throttle cable, so cruise is ruled out. I'll check the intake for oil though, it would have burned off long ago by now, no? It doesn't smoke a single puff, and starts and goes like a brand new engine should. shrug.

Kind of sucks getting it back over a weekend, when jasper, and shops are closed. Now, i don't blame my current shop for too much. But yes, the engine was $6500 plus all the other things I had them replace under the hood...they made a very pretty penny off labor costs. I would have expected very throrough (sp?) examining on it. Someone got lazy. Now, what they're telling me is "someone" pulled the truck in to do my rear brakes the night before I picked it up, and checked the fluids after and added more oil. Now, the sticks aren't exactly the easiest to read, but he should have double checked with someone.

I know jaspers are hit or miss. They have been for some years now. I however never experienced any issues with them so i continued to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'll see how they handle it and go from there.

The cracked firewall is just beginning, so if you hammer the clutch to save your life...it probably isn't going to. But if you drive like normal, it functions fine, and the southbend clutch feels great right now. That said, the clutch issue during the first runaway could be explained in an earlier post.

Calling jasper and a local speciality shop tomorrow, need to figure this one out. I am by all means willing to be patient and work with Jasper in bringing it to one of their shops, i'm fine with that. As long as they take care of me, you can call me Mr. patient. Now, the only issue I will have, is needing a rental if the truck is down for a while.

 

[bbjordan]

Maybe a stupid question, but is it possible that the dipstick is too short? If so, the oil level would read ok, when in fact it would be over-full.

 

[CDX825]

Simple way to check that would be to drain the oil and put 9 quarts back in. Your oil level should read about full.

 

[chris142]

I have heard nothing but good about Jasper here. Lots of places use them w/o trouble....Mainly because nobody local can machine an engine worth a darn around here! So jasper is the best choice here.

You could set me, an untrained guy with no experiance loose in a machine shop and my work would be better than what the shops here do. We had NAPA turn a flywheel a few weeks ago and they turned a warp into it. I had to pull the trans and have the flywheel turned again. Seems ok this time.

I'm sure that the shop that did the heads on my Gasser pickup failed to install valve seals. That thing puffs when started, when shifting and when slowing down.