Cooling with Propane

[flareside_thun]

I never said anything pertaining to a hacked together conversion. Obviously, if a propane refrigerant conversion were to be done it would have to be done correctly. This discussion is NOT about safety concerns with propane being used as a refrigerant, it's about its viability as such. Hence the opening statement. Sure, it is flammable, which makes it dangerous. However, from a logical standpoint, so is every other fluid system encompassed within a vehicle.

 

[riotwarrior]

......Sure, it is flammable, which makes it dangerous. However, from a logical standpoint, so is every other fluid system encompassed within a vehicle.

Not sure but last time I checked....coolant doesnt burn to well....not too sure about brake fluid either... but I"m pretty sure coolant for engine will not burst into flames....

 

[flareside_thun]

Brake fluid burns.....burns just about as hot as transmission fluid.

 

[rjjp]

I find it kind of funny that if this thread was about ratchet strapping a 20 lb propane tank in the bed and running propane injection everyone would be giving the OP tips on what regulators and valves to use, but since he just wants to put a couple pounds in his AC system everyone says that it's dangerous.

 

[yARIC008]

Cars catch on fire all thr time even without propane in the AC system... I dont think this small amount will make everything all that much more inherently more dangerous.

I did find out while working on biodiesel that methanol vapor actually makes an alright refrigerant aswell. I was using an AC pump to vacuum off methanol vapor for a while and pumped it through the evaporator to see what it would do, it got pretty cold.

 

[DaytonaBill]

So let me get this straight..your saying ...DO not let an old lady with little experience driving, drive a vehicle with gasoline trans fluid brake fluid and axle grease in it ....oh ya and propane in it too...????

Propane as a refrigerant is usually in systems designed for that application...

Kinda like propane for motor vehicle fuel is in a tank that is designed for that purpose...try putting it in a tank thats not designed for it...say a rusty old air saddle tank with a hacked together valve and hardware may work...but will it be safe?

Oh please, that's apples and oranges...

 

[RLDSL]

I find it kind of funny that if this thread was about ratchet strapping a 20 lb propane tank in the bed and running propane injection everyone would be giving the OP tips on what regulators and valves to use, but since he just wants to put a couple pounds in his AC system everyone says that it's dangerous.

The problem generally lies in an AC system where you have it all running through the condenser right out front where it gets primary impact in most collisions and while metal is breaking open and buckling, sparks are generated and it all goes right in your face. valves and lines going to an intake on a propane system on an engine generally are rigged in a way that routs them away from the front of the vehicle, plus you are not relying on old lines.

 

[RLDSL]

Not sure but last time I checked....coolant doesnt burn to well....not too sure about brake fluid either... but I"m pretty sure coolant for engine will not burst into flames....

Thats not exactly true either, R12 is flammable. Before the fancy sniffers, the old school method for finding small leaks was to use a propane torch with a broad tip and slowly go around the system and if it flared up with a bright funny colour, then you found your leak.... of course if you got a good wiff of the stuff burning, there s a good chance you could end up dead. one ac shop I worked in we had a guy whod been doing it over 25 years finally had his number was up and caught a wiff and his heart stopped, wound up in the hospital for a few weeks

 

[SparkandFire]

When you burn R12 you make = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fluoride

Bad, bad, bad stuff....

 

[Black dawg]

I find it kind of funny that if this thread was about ratchet strapping a 20 lb propane tank in the bed and running propane injection everyone would be giving the OP tips on what regulators and valves to use, but since he just wants to put a couple pounds in his AC system everyone says that it's dangerous.

I wonder if it would be safer with a cummings??

 

[riotwarrior]

I wonder if it would be safer with a cummings??

Ya probably with a CUMMINGS....but not likely with a Cummins!

 

[riotwarrior]

Thats not exactly true either, R12 is flammable. Before the fancy sniffers, the old school method for finding small leaks was to use a propane torch with a broad tip and slowly go around the system and if it flared up with a bright funny colour, then you found your leak.... of course if you got a good wiff of the stuff burning, there s a good chance you could end up dead. one ac shop I worked in we had a guy whod been doing it over 25 years finally had his number was up and caught a wiff and his heart stopped, wound up in the hospital for a few weeks

LET me respecify...'engine coolant'....water! and antifreeze...yes I know the anti freeze will likely burn but mixed with water properly it likely won't...*****

 

[riotwarrior]

Oh please, that's apples and oranges...

How so....

Propane in a HVAC system designed for R12 is no different than using an air tank for a propane fueled automobile...neither are designed for the particular application but could be made to work...it's as apples to apples as it gets...BAD IDEA # 1 is as bad as BAD IDEA #2 simple...

 

[SparkandFire]

I think Gary, oldbull, etc... was right on this...

simply put, mixing refrigerants is frowned upon, and illegal. I personally don't think there is much of a difference in the risk from running propane as a refrigerant, versus cooking a steak on your patio grill.

Many on this forum, including myself, have made these old A/C systems work well in these trucks off R-134a. If your system isn't cooling then something is wrong.

My '87 truck had a good charge of refrigerant (R-134a I converted it over,) compressor worked fine, finally opened up the evaporator box and it was a solid block of mud and sticks and pine needles. Cleaned that out and had great A/C through my summer in Sacramento two years ago (anyone from CA will know that a sacramento summer is about as terrible as it gets...)

Bottom line is propane is different from R-12. Pretty much any of the add-in refrigerants are different from R-12. They all have a different boiling point, vapor pressure, specific gravity, etc... They don't mix right with R-12.

I would check everything on your system. Have your brother hook gauges up and check pressures. Check for debris in the evap. box.

 

[TomA]

Guess what, any refrigerant will explode, there is oil in there. I blew a hose on an R12 system and it exploded under the hood from the oil spraying on the exhaust manifold. No big deal, just a flash explosion and did no damage.

Here in CA they are charging $16 for a can of R134A plus charging a $10 deposit on the can. Last year you could pick it up for $7 per can off season with no deposit. On top of that NAPA is giving me crap about returning the can for deposit.

I have been considering propane out of desperation. The biggest concern to me is the issue of mixing refrigerants and oil compatibility.