GRRR! I've got black death!

[DaytonaBill]

Well, I have to give the compressor and my installation skills credit... The compressor lasted two years with 10 OZs of PAG 46 oil AND 6 OZs of DYE... For two years my compressor slaved on with it's oil diluted 60%!!!

I caught it just in time, only had to replace compressor and evaporator, with a new orifice tube (red). The VOV did it's job, the only thing was, it's sized to work with R-134a and maybe R-12, not the refrigerant I'm using... Oh well, live and learn...

I've got all of the parts and I found a pancake inline filter that just snaps in on top of the orifice tube, clicky, but I found a better one that fits between your suction line block and your brand new compressor, clicky... It doesn't show the correct image, so scope it out here,

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Here are some pictures of the crud on my VOV, which really isn't too bad... It's all grainy or sandy, no large pieces of the rings or whatnot, but I'm replacing the condenser just the same. The block screen I mentioned will protect my condenser if I get catastrophic compressor damage again. The condensers (tube and fin) can be flushed out good if it has a filter between the compressor and it (in the discharge hose).

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I have heard of one of GM's favorite terms, "desiccant bag rupture", I wonder if this is what it looks like?

If I had one of those block screens on my compressor, it might have saved it if the problems was indeed "desiccant bag rupture"... But on the other hand, it's hard for me to say, I've only seen black death twice...

Tomorrow I will install the stuff and vac it out and check for leaks, then recharge it...

I'll post the results tomorrow...

Meanwhile, was it compressor failure, or was it desiccant bag rupture? You decide...

 

[icanfixall]

Never heard of a desicant bag rupture. That stuff on the orfice tube looks like ground up aluminum..

 

[rjjp]

Just so you know, that's only 37.5%, not 60%.

 

[sassyrel]

dbill,,thats ground up aluminum..black death,is what happens,,when the compressor is allowed to run tooo low on oil,,the oil burns,,and the compressed freon gets hot!!! the hot freon,,and oil,,move into the condenser,,and when it cools down,,it forms a tar like substance in the condenser. yours just looks like a compressor failing..this tar like substance,,has to get hot again,,then it will slowly start to move towards the ccot....thats why you need to pancake filter in the line from the condenser to the ccot,to catch the black death. this used to happen on the ford aerostar vans...did a few....

 

[DaytonaBill]

Never heard of a desicant bag rupture. That stuff on the orfice tube looks like ground up aluminum..

Good thing I spent a good 1/2 hour flushing the evaporator and hoses... The flush comes out clean and never did see any of that stuff on the VOV, in the flush. There is polymerized PAG coating the hoses, but the big three automakers are in agreement that it won't hurt the compressor...

Opps, thanks rjjp! But it still was diluted too much, in my opinion... Stupid me...

 

[DaytonaBill]

dbill,,thats ground up aluminum..black death,is what happens,,when the compressor is allowed to run tooo low on oil,,the oil burns,,and the compressed freon gets hot!!! the hot freon,,and oil,,move into the condenser,,and when it cools down,,it forms a tar like substance in the condenser. yours just looks like a compressor failing..this tar like substance,,has to get hot again,,then it will slowly start to move towards the ccot....thats why you need to pancake filter in the line from the condenser to the ccot,to catch the black death. this used to happen on the ford aerostar vans...did a few....

So, I didn't quite have black death, but was close to it?

I'm installing a filter in the discharge line and in the suction line...

I'm going to start servicing my system twice per year to keep from getting low on oil. I hate this...

 

[itsacrazyasian]

So, I didn't quite have black death, but was close to it?

I'm installing a filter in the discharge line and in the suction line...

I'm going to start servicing my system twice per year to keep from getting low on oil. I hate this...

No thats black death. Its coupled by insufficienct lubrication and in your case, a crappy compressor. the aluminum used in the compressor are a different hardness in the cheaper compressors compared to a Visteon/Motorcraft or Halla compressor.

don't install that filter on the back side of the compressor. It does not have enough surface area and i've seen cases where they cause more issues than meant to solve. The inline filters are a better design.

You don't need to service your a/c twice a year. Mine's been going on strong in my truck and the compressor is quiet. Actually just spent today fixing the ac in my bud's mercedes. One thing i've found with the Fords, once the flush runs clear out of the condenser, a few heat cycles will break up the remaining crap. I usually replace the condenser. they're cheap.

Use a quality PAG oil. You discovered why i mentioned the difference between a pag oil and a double end capped pag.

edit: Also, i can show you tons of Ford (lincolns) i service with 300K+ with only 1 replacement compressor. That Idemitsu oil is awesome. Usually the stock Ford FS10 blows up around the 100K mark. I replace with a visteon or HCC (halla) compressor. Drain out the supplied oil and install my own PAG. Flush the crap out of the system (replace condenser) if necessary and install inline filter. Recharge and never look back at them again. Not even for top off's. Haven't had to touch one yet.

 

[DaytonaBill]

Oh, I plan to install a pancake filter on the liquid line, there's do doubt about that... but if the sandwich filter on the back of the compressor is a bad idea, I'll just take your word for it...

So, did the fact that it had 6 ozs of dye have anything to do with the compressor failure?

I can't help but think that it did... As in reduced lubricity of the oil due to dilution...

What's funny is when I evacuated the system, I got alot of fluids out and it was pretty clean... Kinda opaque, but clean...

I've got a stupid question... Since my pop off valve went off twice, does it need to be replaced? I'm thinking that it is designed to handle many cycles, like the ones on air compressors... But if I need to replace it, please tell me, I would need to know that and would appreciate it very much...

So anyway, I won't get my new condenser until Tuesday, so it will be Wednesday before I can report on my quest to drive a meat locker... It's looking like we are going to have a real hot summer in Fla and Texas... I think we will get more hurricanes this year... They are essentially heat engines...

 

[itsacrazyasian]

What i think alot of people don;t realize is, the dye blends with oil, so yes it will dilute it. BUT! Dye will absorb moisture...

As for high pressure relief? They normally will close once high side system pressure drops below 300psi. I've had them go bad and pop off early. They come as part of the manifold hose assembly though.

Since you're already replacing the condenser, did you order a tube and fin style? If you did, might as well drop R134A in with a VOV and enjoy icy air.

edit: I'm actually looking forward to a hurricane this year. I'm fully prepared. diesel genset on hot standby, plenty of fuel for the truck and freeze dried/mre in storage though i may be out of freeze dried ice cream since i can't stop eating them for desserts now.

 

[sassyrel]

No thats black death. Its coupled by insufficienct lubrication and in your case, a crappy compressor. the aluminum used in the compressor are a different hardness in the cheaper compressors compared to a Visteon/Motorcraft or Halla compressor.

don't install that filter on the back side of the compressor. It does not have enough surface area and i've seen cases where they cause more issues than meant to solve. The inline filters are a better design.

You don't need to service your a/c twice a year. Mine's been going on strong in my truck and the compressor is quiet. Actually just spent today fixing the ac in my bud's mercedes. One thing i've found with the Fords, once the flush runs clear out of the condenser, a few heat cycles will break up the remaining crap. I usually replace the condenser. they're cheap.

Use a quality PAG oil. You discovered why i mentioned the difference between a pag oil and a double end capped pag.

edit: Also, i can show you tons of Ford (lincolns) i service with 300K+ with only 1 replacement compressor. That Idemitsu oil is awesome. Usually the stock Ford FS10 blows up around the 100K mark. I replace with a visteon or HCC (halla) compressor. Drain out the supplied oil and install my own PAG. Flush the crap out of the system (replace condenser) if necessary and install inline filter. Recharge and never look back at them again. Not even for top off's. Haven't had to touch one yet.

THANKS,,ill learn to shut up one of these days..................................

 

[itsacrazyasian]

No, you're on the right path. The oil will break down into a sticky mess. But how do you think those parts store compressors are made so much cheaper than a name brand compressor.
if you have a little free time. search for double end capped pag oil and moisture.

 

[DaytonaBill]

Since you're already replacing the condenser, did you order a tube and fin style? If you did, might as well drop R134A in with a VOV and enjoy icy air.

Now why would I do that? I don't like the 134a, it has too many documented health hazards and I've had 4 cans of Industrial ES-12 since last year, just waiting for the right time to fix my mistakes...

I messed up the first time by using "ES-12 with dye", I should have sent them back as I had ordered the "ES-12" and the reseller pulled a switch and bait on me.

My system did work as well as any R-134a system that I've traveled in and that's with two handicaps working against it... The two handicaps being the use of a VOV and the 6 ozs of dye stealing refrigerant volume along with it diluting the oil...

With all of that said, I'm confident that I can convert my truck into a meat locker with my new tube and fin condenser, along with the red orifice tube, more volume for more refrigerant (thus permitting full charge by weight) and an e-fan on the condenser.

As a matter of fact, later this year, I will be adding a rear evaporator with it's own orifice tube, with duct work and it's own fan, controlled from the dash...

Itsacrazyasian, I like the idea of a e-fan on the condenser that is shut off at 55 mph, via the VSS. How or what did you use for a pulse counter that switched the fan off?

I can visualize a relay operated by coil voltage to turn the fan on when the A/C is turned on and I can see that you found something that interrupts the coil to relay circuit at 55 mph... I just can't figure what you used that counts pulses and switches something off.

By the way, I appreciate your sharing the valuable experience you have gained. Thanks for sharing your secrets...

 

[rhkcommander]

if you get bored, maybe you could snag a pic of the evaporator mounting stuff and or measure the bolts
I think i can get it together but it would help. Please and thanks in any event

 

[DaytonaBill]

if you get bored, maybe you could snag a pic of the evaporator mounting stuff and or measure the bolts
I think i can get it together but it would help. Please and thanks in any event

Sure, I'll get that for you before noon, will that work out for you?

Do you need the connection sizes too?

 

[itsacrazyasian]

Now why would I do that? I don't like the 134a, it has too many documented health hazards and I've had 4 cans of Industrial ES-12 since last year, just waiting for the right time to fix my mistakes...

I messed up the first time by using "ES-12 with dye", I should have sent them back as I had ordered the "ES-12" and the reseller pulled a switch and bait on me.

My system did work as well as any R-134a system that I've traveled in and that's with two handicaps working against it... The two handicaps being the use of a VOV and the 6 ozs of dye stealing refrigerant volume along with it diluting the oil...

With all of that said, I'm confident that I can convert my truck into a meat locker with my new tube and fin condenser, along with the red orifice tube, more volume for more refrigerant (thus permitting full charge by weight) and an e-fan on the condenser.

As a matter of fact, later this year, I will be adding a rear evaporator with it's own orifice tube, with duct work and it's own fan, controlled from the dash...

Itsacrazyasian, I like the idea of a e-fan on the condenser that is shut off at 55 mph, via the VSS. How or what did you use for a pulse counter that switched the fan off?

I can visualize a relay operated by coil voltage to turn the fan on when the A/C is turned on and I can see that you found something that interrupts the coil to relay circuit at 55 mph... I just can't figure what you used that counts pulses and switches something off.

By the way, I appreciate your sharing the valuable experience you have gained. Thanks for sharing your secrets...

One of the biggest reasons why i went with the envirosafe is because i had a R12 condenser.

Its THE coldest vehicle i have ever been in.

I have a variable speed controller for my electric fans. i have a jaguar dual pressure switch installed on my high side line. the fans will ramp up based on head pressure and temperature. the fans will run anytime the a/c compressor is running though. I have rubber flaps on my fan shroud like most european cars that allow air to pass through the shroud at highway speeds and they close when i slow down and the fan creates negative pressure. At highway speeds, the fans never past 20% anyway. they draw about 4 amps at that speed.

edit: there is a manual off switch for water crossings. you can build your own, buddy of mine built one using various inputs and a chrysler cooling fan module. the module powers the fans anytime there is a pulsed ground from his controller. it was a little too indepth for me as i don't have the patience to sit there with a soldering iron like he did.