IDI Head Studs

[h2odrx]

I still remember that look on his face....a look of arrogance, not of surprise or trying to justify his prices, or soften me up, but a total look & attitude like he really expected me to jump all over that deal......anybody that's anybody would be happy paying those prices!!!!

I'm so glad I'm a NOBODY!!!!

 

[typ4]

Yeah, I remember that Arrogant Ass at that shop in Madras,Or back in '94 that said "Let's face it, when 'ya got one of these things, 'ya got a rich man's toy"
....he said it looking down at me laying on the floor after I fell over & twitched & convulsed from him quoting me over $10,000 to rebuild my 7.3......

He did have a really nice customer's waiting room though....color TV, recliners, couches, free coffee, sodapops, cookies, donuts, beer, pretzels.....

I still remember that look on his face....a look of arrogance, not of surprise or trying to justify his prices, or soften me up, but a total look & attitude like he really expected me to jump all over that deal......anybody that's anybody would be happy paying those prices!!!!

And is that shop still in business????

 

[JwS]

In the long run you probably don't want any more than 220ksi, remember that as the ultimate strength goes up, the toughness of the material goes down. ARP has a very good reputation and from what I know, material wise, they have probably got about the optimal material and heat treat for the studs. Also, equally (or more!) important is the quality of the thread forming and the other geometric details of the studs. For more some real interesting info get Carroll Smith's book on Fasteners, great read!
The expense is probably more based on production volume than anything else.
Jay

 

[Joejohn]

Hey guys thanks for the request to join this site. I am making the studs. I have already made 3 proto types and I will be sending them off to have them pull tested until broken to verify there strength. I can currently get arp studs which would run somewhere in the $460-490 range have to call for pricing. However they are not nearly as strong as the H-13 studs I will be producing and they will be price very competitively (guarantee a cheaper price then DPS) shooting for the 500.00 range. Next week is my last week of school for this semester then I will be going home and making a few sets after I get back the pull test results. Replacing the broken studs and the others in my truck and firing it up for the first time. I will post a video and pics of the studs. Also I will be making a power stroke intercooler conversion kit for the turbo IDI trucks from 92 up (my truck already has the intercooler kit on it I just need to replicate it and build a jig ) and if I have time I will intercool my dads 89 and see if I can make an affordable intercooler kit for those trucks as well. I am not some major shop so please give me a few weeks to get home and get all this going. I will for sure post pricing and other information.

Thanks

 

[Joejohn]

Because you asked... Here is the strength of "new" head bolts and Kens and ARP. The new bolts I tested broke at 153,000 psi. The very first batch of studs Ken and I worked on are H13 and have a breaking strength of 270,000 psi. You will pull the threads out of the cast iron block before these fail. Then I herd he was having some trouble in the heat treating process so they now come only in 220,000 psi. Funny because thats what all the ARP studs are. I live in an aircraft rich area so I called several shops about having some studs made up to the 270,000 psi strength. Found it was more costly that ARP or Kens plus most shops would only do it during "slow times" of the year. I talked to Mike Rose at ARP about making up some sets and he really couldn't do what we needed. Said they would need to shut down the complete run just to make us something. Russ has a set from them that wasn't made for our motors but they are long enough and are working better that stock bolts. Mike told me if they did make me a set it would take 4 to 6 weeks and cost between $1100.00 and $1400.00 and still be 220,000 psi. So you see if Ken gets things right again he has the better stud kits. I talked to some Top Fuel Motor builders. They run a 9/16 stud with 220,000 psi and they don't break that often if ever. Surely those motors put out way more stress on the studs than our motors ever will. Gees, each top fuel cylinder makes about 1000 hp. If you guys do find someone that can make up a stud for our motors they need to be rolled threads and not cut threads. Actually the threads as I understand are rolled on after its been heat treated so you know that tool is really something else. A stud can be reused many times over without any fear of failure. That Kens stud pictured broke because the heat treat was not done correctly.

You do not want to heat treat these studs at all. Been there done that got the T-shirt. A super expensive bit and another "special machine" is what I use to cut the threads. Heat treating weakens these and many places will heat treat them to make rolling on threads go quick and easy. I could care less how long it takes me to make them, I just want them strong as possible. We will see what the pull test reveals.

 

[Diesel JD]

Welcome. I believe you've found a place that will help you sell a lot of your wares. Good luck,
JD

 

[towcat]

joejohn-
welcome to our little dark corner in the diesel world
I couldn't even possibly keep up with your working knowledge on these studs, but it looks like you been on the learning curve the hard way already.
But...if you need some ideas on IC piping, do a search on intercoolers here and you will find quite a few threads and plenty of pics of what some members have done to their trucks already. Just for the record, I cheated on mime. I managed to get a off the shelf ATS IC kit. If you need help, post it. You'll find that there's someone here willing to help, no matter how far the distance may be

 

[Ford428CJ]

joejohn-
welcome to our little dark corner in the diesel world
I couldn't even possibly keep up with your working knowledge on these studs, but it looks like you been on the learning curve the hard way already.
But...if you need some ideas on IC piping, do a search on intercoolers here and you will find quite a few threads and plenty of pics of what some members have done to their trucks already. Just for the record, I cheated on mime. I managed to get a off the shelf ATS IC kit. If you need help, post it. You'll find that there's someone here willing to help, no matter how far the distance may be

You Bet! I would be more then happy to help out for a great cause! These ole IDI's are like FE's to me.......Got to love them, or I do anyway

 

[Joejohn]

I do have a good question. I am looking for a place to buy the tools to "Dynamically" time the hp fuel pump timing? I want to get the truck set up as best I can and then take a trip to the dyno.

 

[towcat]

I use the Snap-On MT257 on a regular basis. I also have the MT254, but the lumy method is a bigger PITA to set up.
check out this fleabay auction but be careful, the piezo clamp is not seen in the pic.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Snap-On-MT257-D...000972208QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370000972208

 

[ttman4]

I use the Snap-On MT257 on a regular basis. I also have the MT254, but the lumy method is a bigger PITA to set up.
check out this fleabay auction but be careful, the piezo clamp is not seen in the pic.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Snap-On-MT257-D...000972208QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370000972208

TC, you or anybody else here gonna go after it? I stuck a token bid in just to keep my ebay reminders going & updated.

& TC,....Avatar.....sighhhh......

 

[helgaairhead]

Head Studs

Why not O-ring the block and secure the gasket with piano wire.
This is very common where I live, it keep up with higher pressure.
I'm on to a IDI rebuild and will go for this solution, together with head studs, if I can find them reasonable prized
So, if we cannot get our oily hands on decent studs, go for the O-ring solution together with original head bolts.

Just a thought .

Helge

 

[Diesel Dave]

Why not O-ring the block and secure the gasket with piano wire.
This is very common where I live, it keep up with higher pressure.
I'm on to a IDI rebuild and will go for this solution, together with head studs, if I can find them reasonable prized
So, if we cannot get our oily hands on decent studs, go for the O-ring solution together with original head bolts.

Just a thought .

Helge

Not being critical at all but just want to throw a suggestion that was given to me for a machine shop about o-ringing a block and heads. Consider the ultimate use of the engine and demand on the cylinders. If the concern is blown head gaskets from higher compression which is cheaper to fix, broke pistons or a blown head gasket? Of course this was for a n2o 331 stroker. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ttman4]

And is that shop still in business????

Shop's there, different owner, but No, that arrogant ass ain't.
It do cost to run a business, lots more than folks realize,
but jeessseee....I didn't want to fund his retirement plan at '94 rates!!
Last I heard there's a younger guy that I know that's got it...seems pretty good & seems be a pretty good guy. Ain't cheap, but like I say, it do cost bucks to open the doors each morn.

 

[typ4]

Yea but 10k for an idi. maybe at full list for everything.