IDI Head Studs

[Diesel JD]

Well, I would trust Gary when it comes to machine stuff....I wonder if this guy's head studs are as expensive as Ken's....Ken's probably aren't as good as the ARP studs, but surely a lot better than head bolts. If I ever have my heads off again I will probably buy a set of studs, or if I build an IDI or PSD. But you better be sure your torque wrench is calibrated and you get those torque readings exactly correct. From what I've seen here and at the Olds diesel site, the slightest mistake may make them fail. At least you would have to work really hard to damage them unlike head bolts...but as Dwight said, pulling IDI heads is really really not fun.

 

[92F350CC]

Headstuds: $675.00
New Engine: $4000.00 +
Look on drivers face when parts of the driver's side head(brand new) come through the hood? PRICELESS.

 

[Greg Pettit]

I am SERIOUS about keeping my motor together with the high compression it makes then add boost! Have you ever done a head job on these motors?

I understand the NEED for studs, just not the PRICE for THESE studs.....

Heck, I could put ARP studs in every threaded hole on a big block Ford for $500.00

Greg

 

[Ford428CJ]

Maybe you should read through this here thread before you consider those studs.....some good background info in it for ya

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18741&highlight=broken+stud

Maybe this will help you with some thoughts about these studs.

I'll have to agree with icanfixall, I qoute " That picture shows the stud was not threaded completely into the block."

Not that DPS isn't having a issue but it also looks like it was installed wrong as well. Would you not agree with that??? And it looks to rusty, that cant be a good thing either! JMHO

 

[Ford428CJ]

I understand the NEED for studs, just not the PRICE for THESE studs.....

Heck, I could put ARP studs in every threaded hole on a big block Ford for $500.00

Greg

I agree Greg! But I'm finding out that playing with Diesel can get real expensive really quick! I'm sure you are finding that out as well.....

 

[92F350CC]

I bet a gasser stud is cheaper to make, since it won't be holding the pressure that a diesel stud is. Remember, a gasser runs on average an 8.5-10.5:1 compression ratio. A diesel usually runs about 16.5:1, and even worse, our IDI's are running a 22.5:1 ratio. That's over twice what a gasser is running, not to mention the air we're cramming down their throats with the turbos. You run about 5-6 psi max in the average gasser IIRC. These run about 10-15 psi.

 

[Ford428CJ]

I bet a gasser stud is cheaper to make, since it won't be holding the pressure that a diesel stud is. Remember, a gasser runs on average an 8.5-10.5:1 compression ratio. A diesel usually runs about 16.5:1, and even worse, our IDI's are running a 22.5:1 ratio. That's over twice what a gasser is running, not to mention the air we're cramming down their throats with the turbos. You run about 5-6 psi max in the average gasser IIRC. These run about 10-15 psi.

I thought it was 21.5 to 1 on the IDI's???? I do under stand what your saying. I was just commenting on how expensive Diesel stuff is. Not that FE's are cheap but Diesel stuff is another world. As for gassers, if your not running 11to1 or more......Forget it .....JMO

 

[Greg Pettit]

For the record, my 429 based stroker has almost 12:1 and the aluminum heads are held down by 10 9/16" grade 8 bolts.....

The 7.3 has what, 17 1/2" grade 8 bolts and an iron head? Seems pretty robust to me, but with the added boost I can see the need for added clamping force.

How much stronger are the studs vs. the OEM bolts?

Greg

 

[93turbo_animal]

so far I pretty much agree with everybody but just wanted to point out that while you may run 12.5 in a gasser when you start boosting it the CR goes the other way in a hurry or otherwise headstuds are the last thing you'll have to worry about

 

[Greg Pettit]

Oops, I did not mean to compare the strength of my gasser to the 7.3, I was just making sure that 428CJ didn't think my gasser engine was weak (less than 11:1 ...)

 

[Ford428CJ]

Oops, I did not mean to compare the strength of my gasser to the 7.3, I was just making sure that 428CJ didn't think my gasser engine was weak (less than 11:1 ...)

I know better then that Greg . The Poor Mans is 12to1 with iron heads. And yes it will run out on the street. Just like a daily drive!
No Joke.........

 

[Ford428CJ]

JoeJohn does make them!!!!

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1437503&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[Diesel JD]

Hmm, well it looks like Ken may have destroyed his reputation over at the other site too on the business end. This Joejohn seems like a cool guy....we need him to join over here too. Hopefully he has enough capabilities to tool up for the flood of requests he's going to get. The intercooler adapters for IDI sounds neat too.

 

[icanfixall]

Because you asked... Here is the strength of "new" head bolts and Kens and ARP. The new bolts I tested broke at 153,000 psi. The very first batch of studs Ken and I worked on are H13 and have a breaking strength of 270,000 psi. You will pull the threads out of the cast iron block before these fail. Then I herd he was having some trouble in the heat treating process so they now come only in 220,000 psi. Funny because thats what all the ARP studs are. I live in an aircraft rich area so I called several shops about having some studs made up to the 270,000 psi strength. Found it was more costly that ARP or Kens plus most shops would only do it during "slow times" of the year. I talked to Mike Rose at ARP about making up some sets and he really couldn't do what we needed. Said they would need to shut down the complete run just to make us something. Russ has a set from them that wasn't made for our motors but they are long enough and are working better that stock bolts. Mike told me if they did make me a set it would take 4 to 6 weeks and cost between $1100.00 and $1400.00 and still be 220,000 psi. So you see if Ken gets things right again he has the better stud kits. I talked to some Top Fuel Motor builders. They run a 9/16 stud with 220,000 psi and they don't break that often if ever. Surely those motors put out way more stress on the studs than our motors ever will. Gees, each top fuel cylinder makes about 1000 hp. If you guys do find someone that can make up a stud for our motors they need to be rolled threads and not cut threads. Actually the threads as I understand are rolled on after its been heat treated so you know that tool is really something else. A stud can be reused many times over without any fear of failure. That Kens stud pictured broke because the heat treat was not done correctly.

 

[ttman4]

I agree Greg! But I'm finding out that playing with Diesel can get real expensive really quick! I'm sure you are finding that out as well.....

Yeah, I remember that Arrogant Ass at that shop in Madras,Or back in '94 that said "Let's face it, when 'ya got one of these things, 'ya got a rich man's toy"
....he said it looking down at me laying on the floor after I fell over & twitched & convulsed from him quoting me over $10,000 to rebuild my 7.3......

He did have a really nice customer's waiting room though....color TV, recliners, couches, free coffee, sodapops, cookies, donuts, beer, pretzels.....

I still remember that look on his face....a look of arrogance, not of surprise or trying to justify his prices, or soften me up, but a total look & attitude like he really expected me to jump all over that deal......anybody that's anybody would be happy paying those prices!!!!