Water/**** injection

[Markinter]

Your right F350camper

I have several pumps that put out 3500 psi @5.5 gpm with the pump turning at 3600 rpms. No matter what nozzle I put in the end of the hose or no nozzle at all the gpm will remain the same as long as the rpms on the pump remain the same. My assertion was based on a constant, if I increased the rpms of the pump that would produce higher gpms no matter what the nozzle was rated. Demand pumps will cycle on and off to meet a preset flow rating and by increasing the amount off back pressure required to cause the pump to cycle off it could flow more water through a nozzle thats rated at lower pressures.

So basically I was wrong, but right in theory I hope . The bottom line is you have to check your nozzles with your pump to truly find out what amount of water is being pumped into your engine and changing anything will change everything:Sly .

My nozzle is 3.9gph or .065gpm which is half of what your using. I don't feel any seat of the pants difference with straight water and since I don't have a pyro gauge yet I don't know what drop there is in egts.

I turned up my fuel rate for the extra tq, I added the injection to keep the added fuel from raising the egts too high. I do feel like it pulls the hills easier when I used water/**** window washing fluid.

F350camper, what has been your SOP with your system?

 

[F350camper]

The bottom line is you have to check your nozzles with your pump to truly find out what amount of water is being pumped into your engine and changing anything will change everything:Sly .

Couldn’t have put it better myself. That’s the best way to approach this stuff. Decide how much water you want to flow, check it in a jug. If you change anything, check it in a jug again. Good call!!

SOP? Uh-oh I'm about to truly show my ignorance, what is SOP?

 

[Markinter]

SOP= seat of pants

I was on this RV forum and they kept using the letters DW and DH I thought it might mean dish washer but it turned out to be darling wife, I was close . I'm glad my DW doesn't read this forum :Sly

 

[Agnem]

based on the chart at snow performance http://www.snowperformance.net/files/diesel_installation.pdf

It looks like I am a tad high. According to his chart, which is different than an email conversation we had a year ago, It looks like I should be shooting for .12gpm (451ml pm)

Rob, how many gallons/miles have you gone through now that it's been almost a year? Still seems to be holding up well I guess?

 

[F350camper]

Ahhh seat of pants. OK, whew, I that that was gonna be some technical term and I was gonna feel really stupid.

Uhh Id say SOP rings in at 25-30 hp. You can feel a definite slight burst, but not stellar. Now when I played with mixing my own methanol and water, I felt a huge power gain on a 50/50 mix. 2 to 3 times larger than the blue stuff. But I also got loads of detonation. I tested one run and that was enough for me. Turns out I’ll get detonation with anything richer than 35%.

Rob, how many gallons/miles have you gone through now that it's been almost a year? Still seems to be holding up well I guess?

Good question Mel. I’ll have to admit that I haven’t kept absolute track, but prolly right at about 20 gallons. Give or take. I’ve put some 15k on the truck. So that gives you an idea of how sparingly I use it. So it’s prolly safe to say that to this day Travis has still run about 3x as many gallons through his as I have through mine. No ill effects to report thus far.

Since I don’t have a permanent tank my system goes like this.

Grab new gallon of splash WW fluid.
Top off WW reservoir with remaining fluid in old splash tank (if any).
Throw away old splash tank
Install new splash tank
Poke hole in new splash tank
Insert pickup tube

I am intrigued however that it appears Matt Snow has lowered is starting point recommendations. Either that or the email conversation I had with him last year was just more aggressive. It makes me want to experiment with an even smaller nozzle. When I drill the new intake hat for the splash system, I think I’m going to take the time to ‘turn’ the hex shape off the edges of the nozzle . That will allow me to change nozzles without removing the intake hat. Hopefully that will enable easier SOP (see using the new word already) testing of different nozzle sizes. It would be cool to run my current nozzle through some course and document results. And then keep downsizing the nozzle until all EGT and power benefits are gone. I think that would be good data to collect. Even Ken at DPS posted last year that their system on a 6.9 was flowing over .3gpm with both stages engaged. I wonder if some failure reports are coming back causing these guys to tune down a bit.

 

[Agnem]

So it’s prolly safe to say that to this day Travis has still run about 3x as many gallons through his as I have through mine.

I think I helped him put 10 gallons in in N.C. I'm sure your not anywhere close to 1/3rd.

 

[F350camper]

here is are a post lifted from the archives at TDS. This was posted by land_yaght (ken at DPS) in response to a question Argve (Travis) asked. At this time anyhow, he didnt seem worried about water amounts until you approach .6gpm. Now thats some serious amounts of water folks.

Question:

Oh now you gone and done it.... Here comes another line of questioning... which I guess I'll be the first to ask...

Ken,

Ok what/where is the limit/line where a system goes from not being able to kill the engine to being able to kill it? GPH wise...

I ask this because I'm getting ready to bring on line the second stage of the Blizzard Splash system Ver 2.0.1a (gotta show the changes in the system ya know) and I will more than likely start doing the "Home Brewed Juice".

Answer:

.60gpm (either one nozzle or combined between 2) will pretty effectively kill an idi.

By "kill" I mean that when the injection is turned on, it will cause the engine to stumble and/or hesitate. In essence, you're putting the fire out.

I've seen cases when too much methanol was used, and the owner was injecting an insane ammount of water, we could actually hear a popping noise coming from the intake. Needless to say that engine now needs head gaskets.

When you have too much **** content and inject it too fast the methanol actually starts to burn. This is not a good thing. Rather than injecting a mixture that is going to cool your intake charge temps down, you're now injecting a fuel directly into the intake that will ignite before the piston reaches TDC. Use way too much methanol, and I've seen it where the mixture will ignite before the intake valve is even shut. This is definately not a good thing

So it appears in the performance crowd atleast, there is a wide range of acceptable amounts of water.

 

[Markinter]

It seems what we are talking about really is the individuals perspective on what he wants and what possible risks he is willing to take. When I say that someone is putting too much water in their engine it's only my opinion from my perspective which is on the conservative side. All of these mods we do aren't being done in a lab and the variables like current engine condition and driver habits etc all contribute to not knowing what possible damage could happen in the short or long term. Just look at peoples mpgs on the same trucks.

Like F350camper said that's what these forums are for and I hope I haven't stepped on anyones toes expressing my opinion .

 

[F350camper]

My toes definitely don’t feel steeped on. I’m glad to get all of these opinions out here. It really makes me want to try out a smaller nozzle and see if I can get close the same results.

I think we definitely agree that Ken's recommendation was way too high. I know that I get unnerving noises at .25GPM+. There is no way I would flow up to .5 or .6. No way no how.

Thanks for continuing to follow this thread, I’ve really enjoyed it.

 

[Markinter]

Cool Rob, this is a good thread.

BTW what part of CO are you in, I travel through there 3x a year for work and hit most of the major towns, at least the ones with Circuit City stores in them.

 

[F350camper]

Just North West of Denver. Circuit City is right down the road.

Let me know next time you head through.

 

[argve]

Rob - your not even close to the number of gallons I ran through... I can't remember fully (been a while) but I can tell you I was a WW ****** - was starting to sell the kids' toys on the street corner for my next fix. You will be surprised how fast you can go through 10 gallons of WW But then again I would get groceries with the water pump running...

 

[PackRat]

Rob - your not even close to the number of gallons I ran through... I can't remember fully (been a while) but I can tell you I was a WW ****** - was starting to sell the kids' toys on the street corner for my next fix. You will be surprised how fast you can go through 10 gallons of WW But then again I would get groceries with the water pump running...

Dang **** junkies.

 

[F350camper]

Rob - your not even close to the number of gallons I ran through... I can't remember fully (been a while) but I can tell you I was a WW ****** - was starting to sell the kids' toys on the street corner for my next fix. You will be surprised how fast you can go through 10 gallons of WW But then again I would get groceries with the water pump running...

 

[Markinter]

Rob - your not even close to the number of gallons I ran through... I can't remember fully (been a while) but I can tell you I was a WW ****** - was starting to sell the kids' toys on the street corner for my next fix. You will be surprised how fast you can go through 10 gallons of WW But then again I would get groceries with the water pump running...

argve...Sounds like you liked a little diesel with your WW

Rob... you must be near Colfax then or Wadsworth? My next trip will be in late June early July. I'll let you know when, can't wait to get into those thunder storms