timing IP and MPG help

[HankHill]

Hank I feel your pain somewhat. My truck never has gotten the fuel economy I hoped it would. I usually get 12-14 if I'm doing all city and suburb driving and 15-17 if it's all highway. It's usually suburban/mix so about 13-15 lately. I'll soon have the brownie installed and that'll give me OD, I'd be as pleased as I could be if I could get 15 all the time and 18 or 19 on the highway. I think you need to find a reputable shop that times with tools and ask them to set it for you or find a member with the tools and meet up. You might be still somewhat retarded timing wise, yet better than before. Timing by ear would be way too much of a pain if only because you have to make so many adjustments. I still have yet to find an easy way to get those mounting bots loose and then hold the pump where I want it. As you no doubt figured out, it wants to move once you rotate it which is a chore in itself.

yes I have figured out how annoying it is lol, but wouldnt the timing too advanced cause it to burn more fuel? currently where the mark is on the timing gear my pump is rotated about 1/8" toward passenger side/advanced basically Im going to yank the daylights out of it toward the passenger side until it knocks then keep backing it off?

 

[Agnem]

Get a meter on it! Why waste your time setting it from one "guess" to another? Glow plug damage, and hammering of the wrist pins can result from too much advance. Not only that, but you will never know if your IP is working properly, because someone who does it properly will know what the timing looks like at idle, and through the RPM range to the target speed. Timing by ear will only get you close. 2 degrees makes a BIG difference, and that is about as close as you can get it by ear... if your good. If you land it at 8.5, it's not because your good. It's because your lucky.

 

[Todd C]

Get a meter on it! Why waste your time setting it from one "guess" to another? Glow plug damage, and hammering of the wrist pins can result from too much advance. Not only that, but you will never know if your IP is working properly, because someone who does it properly will know what the timing looks like at idle, and through the RPM range to the target speed. Timing by ear will only get you close. 2 degrees makes a BIG difference, and that is about as close as you can get it by ear... if your good. If you land it at 8.5, it's not because your good. It's because your lucky.

What Mel said...
Get a meter on it...

 

[Rot Box]

I had my timing set to 9.7 btdc with the pulse method. HUGE improvement over the 13* it was previously set at I drive like a grandpa at 60-65 on the freeway and I saw a huge improvement in fuel economy once it was set right. With the 255's my speedo is off a bit so I don't have exact numbers on fuel mileage though.

 

[HankHill]

where do I get this "Meter"

 

[Agnem]

Your absolute best bet is to come to the IDI Weekend rally in Illinois in 20 days. Short of that, I don't know. I had a guy (Paul k2pilot?) from your state drive all the way down to my place to get his timed by me many years ago. We don't have a lot of people in New York to begin with, much less ones able to do the job.

 

[HankHill]

doesnt the pump need to be timed when new injectors are put in aswell? my pump has 70k on it and at 100k when I have to replace it then I will be in this spot again

 

[Agnem]

It's not a bad idea to have your timing checked every 20-30K miles. It's going to creep in the retarded direction as things wear, and fuel delivery for any given throttle setting is going to decrease. Fortunately as injectors wear, their pop presure lessens so things can sort of stay even, but there are no guarantees.

 

[Diesel JD]

You can buy the tools and learn how to do it yourself, unfortunately the old tools are considered obsolete and getting harder and harder to find. The most modern method is with a Ferret pulse adapter. My understanding is that you can buy this adapter and find your "0" mark on the damper with an adjustable strobe timing light and key in your degrees of advance and when the marks line up you're good, just like with a gas engine. The adjustable strobe timing light is about $100 from autozone or advance and a more professional one could get in to more hundreds, the Ferret is anywhere from $150-250. This is not cheap. You could likely pick up a used but good Snap On MT480 or 1480 on ebay or Craigslist for less but the results are hit or miss. Snap On quit supporting these meters in 2004 so parts from them are rare to non existent. Icanfixall found a guy who does still service them, I lost track of where that all went though. If you get lucky and get a meter with all the attachments working it's worth it's weight in gold, but particularly if you have a non working luminosity probe (for lumy metho) or pulse adapter for pulse timing or if the magnetic pickup croaks the meter might well be junk. The other option is to call around. Get on the American Diesel Specialists or Stanadyne site an find your local fuel injection and turbo shop. Call around and ask questions, ask what timing tools they use, if they say they time by ear cause it's always close enough keep looking. It's something worth driving a few miles for. Expect to pay for .5 hr to 1.5 hrs of labor at $50-120 per hour. I must caution you...even with the timing perfect with your setup you're still likely to be at 12 mpg in town and 14-16 on the highway if you keep speeds reasonable. It'll never be a Prius or a TDI. The best bet is to do injectors and timing at the same time or better yet pull them and have them pop tested and spray pattern checked. New injectors pop in the 2000 psi +-200 PSI range and a matched set is within 50 psi of each other. The pop test service should be inexpensive or free. You should do the injector R&R yourself if you are somewhat handy and enjoy working on things. It would cost a fortune in labor, but it's not technically difficult, you just have to pay careful attention to detail, clean the bores, don't bend the lines too bad, and be real careful not to cross thread the injectors on reinstallation. It is so easy to do that last one..... Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[MR.T]

+1 on the Ferret 765 recommendation.

 

[Brianedwardss]

It's not a bad idea to have your timing checked every 20-30K miles. It's going to creep in the retarded direction as things wear, and fuel delivery for any given throttle setting is going to decrease. Fortunately as injectors wear, their pop presure lessens so things can sort of stay even, but there are no guarantees.

Very well said, Mel. The 5 IDI's I've owned were retarded a great amount when I bought them, plus every un-molested IDI that comes in the shop is guaranteed to be retarded.

Another thing retarded timing does is make the exhaust louder... just try it!

 

[fischer1399]

anybody members on here from southeast michigan with all the tools needed for the pulse timing?

 

[pybyr]

Anyone within driving distance of Central Vermont got a meter and the know-how of how to use it?

I've visited several local diesel shops and they all gave me some kind of macho sneer, layed on real thick, that they only work on Cummins, or only work on electronic-injected diesels, how they feel so sorry for me having the engine that I do... blah. blah, blah... which I translated into them not knowing what they're doing on this series engine.

Or would someone be willing to let me use a meter, and yes, I know all the reasons people are hesitant to loan out tools, especially instrumentation-- So I would be more than willing to send you some form of secure deposit in advance that you could hang onto until I returned the meter and you confirmed that it was in working condition?