Rear Disk brake conversion

LCAM-01XA

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Don't know the year of your truck, but my 1990 doesn't have a computer to flash :dunno

If your '90 did not come w/ RABS-delete option (only seen that on F-Superduties, never on 1-ton and smaller) then you have a computer to pull RABS codes off - what you don't have is a PCM (aka E4OhDevil computer), but you still have one for the RABS. IIRC it lives under the dash towards the middle of the cab, kinda below the radio.
 

79jasper

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My RABSII computer is supposed to be behind the glovebox, though I haven't looked yet. I thought only the rabsII could produce codes, but definitely could be wrong.
 

LCAM-01XA

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I have a brick like Mulochico, ain't nothing behind the glove box but the HVAC plenum. Yous is an OBS, different dash and HVAC ducting, yours could very well be behind the glove box. On the codes idk, never had to pull mine - I'll have to look into it tho, you bring up an excellent point there.
 

79jasper

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Ah I keep forgetting all the changes made in the early 90's. I'm not sure when the f-series made the change from rabs to RABSII, But it's pretty easy to pull the codes. What took me the longest was finding the right wire.
 

LCAM-01XA

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if you don't mind, can you make a how-to thread about pulling RABS codes? I have the codes listing and the troubleshooting process, but actual pulling codes is for some reason missing from my documents...
 

79jasper

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I'll see what I can do. I don't have any pictures for locations of components, but I could link them from other sites.

On edit: Give me a day or two and I'll snap some pics off my 88.
 
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Mulochico

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If your '90 did not come w/ RABS-delete option (only seen that on F-Superduties, never on 1-ton and smaller) then you have a computer to pull RABS codes off - what you don't have is a PCM (aka E4OhDevil computer), but you still have one for the RABS. IIRC it lives under the dash towards the middle of the cab, kinda below the radio.

Have to look into that today. Have had several mechanic friends double check that in the past and none of us could find the connection. I would be interested in a how to also. :popcorn
 

hce

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The wikepedia article on drums brakes is terrible and misleading. I am surprised how much it has been regurgitated over the internet. Beware wikepedia is not always correct and complete. That being said here is a much better explanation.

Three brake designs are in general use:
There may be others but not as common.
single leading shoe,
twin leading shoe; and
duo-servo.
Each one uses the wedging or self-energizing action of the brake shoe, to assist the lining to grip the rotating drum when the brakes are applied. The twin-leading shoe has an actuator for each brake shoe. The actuator can be mechanical, however a hydraulic actuator is popular on light vehicles. The hydraulic actuator is called the wheel cylinder.
Some brakes have two wheel cylinders, with one piston in each cylinder. When the brakes are applied, hydraulic pressure forces each piston to move outwards, pushing on one end of the brake shoe. The direction of rotation of the drum produces a wedging action on both brake shoes, so they are both called leading shoes.
This system was once popular on front wheels because it is very efficient in the forward direction. This is due to the self-energizing or self-wedging action of the shoes as the drum rotates. Its main disadvantage is that it is only about 30% as efficient in reverse, so it is usually combined with a single leading shoe arrangement on the rear to provide a balanced system.
The single leading shoe system uses a single wheel cylinder with two pistons. Both shoes ride against a fixed pin on the opposite side of the piston. When the brakes are applied, both shoes press against the brake drum. One shoe is called leading shoe, the other is called trailing. The leading shoe tends to be self-energized, while the trailing shoe tends to be forced off the drum.
This arrangement is common on rear wheels as they work equally well in forward and reverse, so it makes an effective handbrake. They can also have a self-adjusting mechanism. The primary shoe will be the longer one.
The duo-servo design also uses one wheel cylinder with two pistons. It is a high energy brake, that is, it exerts large self-energizing forces. The lower ends of the shoes are linked but aren’t firmly anchored to the backing plate. This lets the complete shoe assembly float, within limits.
When the brakes are applied, both shoes are carried around by the drum, until the secondary shoe contacts the anchor pin. The self-energizing force of the primary shoe and its wheel cylinder application force is now transferred to the secondary shoe through the lower linkage. The secondary shoe is now being force into the drum by the force from primary shoe trying to rotate through the linkage and its own wedging action. The primary shoe has the shorter lining and is always fitted ahead of the wheel cylinder in terms of drum rotation. The primary shoe has less force applied to it, to keep pressure consistent on the friction material the pad length is shortened. Reducing the area of the primary pad promotes even wear between the primary and secondary. It’s most important that the shoes are fitted correctly, since it’s the secondary shoe that does most of the work. The linings may also have different frictional values. The colors of the retraction springs indicate different spring strengths. This design is common on rear wheels and it works in both directions. The shorter shoe does lessen the self-energizing effect when backing up.
For those wondering Ford has been using the duo-servo design in pickup for quite some time. In other words your Ford pickup with an idi has duo-servos in the back.

Two experiments one can do to see self-energizing effect.
1. Apply park brake and back up. Now try to go forward. Note is much easier to backup due the drum brakes self-energize more in a forward direction.
2. Hook up a boat to a 4 wheel drum vehicle, duo-servo type, and back down a steep boat ramp. One will only do this once.
Onto the residual valve.
All drum brakes should have a residual valve. The valve helps keep the shoes closer to the drum. The pressure works against the springs on drum brakes. A residual valve may be in the master cylinder, combination valve or any device further down the line. A drum system without residual valves will have a mushy pedal. On disks as long as the reservoir is above the caliper the residual valve is not needed. The difference in height will provide enough pressure on the system. For drums use a 10lb residual valve. For disks if the reservoir is lower use a 2 lb.
 

79jasper

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The girlfriend is giving me her old camera and they just moved. So now she's gotta find it. Then I'll have to borrow her laptop because my phone formats the pictures wrong to be able to directly upload them. Lol

I can't believe the difference in price for the abs control modules. $90 for srw and about $190 for drw. If it comes to that, I'm running a new hardline from the master back, and skipping the rabs valve. I found a 25 foot roll of 3/16 double wall steel brake line for $22. It's pvf coated and has a max pressure of 17,900.
 

LCAM-01XA

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Is that the green "polyarmor" line? Good stuff, lasts long time too, just try to not scratch the coating too much. Also when you're done making the flares before you slide the nuts against them coat the line ends in dielectric grease, this will help the nuts turn as you tighten them instead of grabbing on the steel line and trying to twist it. Also, if you're bypassing the RABS you may wanna invest about $30 in a manual proportioning valve - in my experience even vacuum-boosted fully-stock rear brakes lock up way too easy when the RABS is disabled (even more so on wet or slick roads), so you can dial the rear pressure down to balance the system better when empty, then when you load up you can always open the valve all the way and run the full discharge pressure off the master.
 

79jasper

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Yep, that's the stuff. I didn't even think about the proportioning valve. Right now the truck stays pretty back heavy with the bed that's on it. Plus I'm carrying around a 7.3idi because I can't unload it yet lol. (The overload spring ends ride on the flange contact things without any extra weight on it. I'll get pics of it also and hope to go weigh it soon.)
But eventually I'll need to add a proportioning valve because the bed is coming off before long.
 

sassyrel

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. The proportioning valve is what cuts down the line pressure to the rear brakes, remove that and that same master cylinder will lock up your rear brakes just about every time you get on the brakes
sure of that??????????
 

hce

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100 psi is a bit optimistic before the drums move. I could be just that strong but I have pulled the drums away from the anchors with one hand. The springs may seem strong, but compared to a valve spring that has a 100 pounds seat pressure they are rather tiny. The springs are at an angle to the to wheel cylinder so applied pressure of the springs is reduced. Also there is a mechanical advantage for the wheel cylinder over the springs. The springs are closer brake adjuster that they are pivoting about.
A metering valve is set to to the rear drums will see 30 psi before the front applies. Not 100% true as I am sure some manufactures vary the psi, but 30 is close enough for most. For that matter some residual valves are up to 25. So somewhere below 30 psi with a decent safety margin the shoes are touching the drums. Mushy could be replaced by sloppy, but it takes less pedal movement to go from 10 to 30 psi then from 0-10psi. Air intrusion is one reason but if i said that it would not be 100% true as there are wheel cylinder seals that would not exhibit the behavior you described. The resistant of fluid being pushed by the drum springs through small long lines also provides pressure against cup seals.
In an ideal world there is no water or air in the brake fluid and there it is totally incompressible, also in this would seals, brake lines and other components are perfectly rigid and do not flex. That 10 psi helps a bit against that.
It also does reduce the amount of force the springs are forcing the shoes into the anchor pins, as stated not really as high as one would think.
If you really want I could bring in geometry and trig and figure out what psi it should take to overcome the springs, but the pressure settings for the metering valve should suffice.
 

79jasper

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How about adding a t fitting to the bleeder on the wheel cylinder and adding a gauge, then see what the real pressure needed to push the shoes is?
That would also show the "idle" line pressure.
Just a thought.
 

jaluhn83

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Are there any trucks (any make) that have rear discs and a 8 on 6.5" lug pattern? I've heard that some 97-99 vans did but can't confirm.

My thinking is to find one that does and then do some fab work to fit the parking brakes and calipers to a 10.25 or D70....
 

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