Overdrive on a Mercedes?

Full Monte

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Does anyone have any experience with this? My 300D runs at 2500rpm on the freeway. I'm wondering if it would gain fuel economy with another gear on top? The Ford diesels seem to lope along at 1800-2000 on the freeway with the right gearing and overdrive. Does anyone make a Mercedes overdrive?
 

The Warden

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I don't think an auxiliary overdrive unit is made. It would be possible to swap in a 5 speed, though...the real problem is finding one, since 5 speed M-B diesels were only sold in Europe (except for the 190D 2.2 and the 190D 2.5l; the '90-'93 300D 2.5 may also have been available with one? The 5 speeds out of a 201 may fit into a 124, although I know that they won't fit into a 123 for some reason).

That said, there's really no reason to. M-B made these engines with a far higher power band than you see in American diesels. On the OM617, the engine actually wants to cruise between 2500 and 3000 RPM's, and I think your OM603 is about the same (the band may be a bit broader, though). If the cruising RPM's drops below about 2000 or so, you may actually be lugging the engine...not 100% certain on that, though; would need to dyno one and hook up a pyro to be able to tell for sure.

Some people have experimented with putting a different rear end behind an M-B diesel, with good results. What vehicle speed are you turning 2500 RPM's at? I know some people have put 2.47 rear ends behind a turbo 617 (stock is 3.07, or 2.88 for a 1985 model year), and got the RPM's down to about 2500 at 70mph (from 3000+)...and made the engine far quieter and helped considerably with fuel mileage. But, if you're turning 2500 RPM on the freeway, it sounds like the rear end in your 124 is already close to ideal...there probably isn't much that can be done to improve that...
 

towcat

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Full Monte said:
The Ford diesels seem to lope along at 1800-2000 on the freeway with the right gearing and overdrive.
monte-
i've never had mime taching that low on the freeway. usually me throttle is pinned to the floor and bouncing off the governor. ;Sweet
btw-
you should have a 4spd OD trans in your car. I don't think MBZ shoved a 3spd in that generation body. Then again, I was wrong on a speedo cable too. :eek:
 

The Warden

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towcat said:
btw-
you should have a 4spd OD trans in your car. I don't think MBZ shoved a 3spd in that generation body. Then again, I was wrong on a speedo cable too. :eek:
You're half-right :) This came as a surprise to me too, when I found it out...his (and mine, and almost certainly your) tranny IS a 4 speed, but top gear's 1:1. M-B didn't put an overdrive auto tranny behind a diesel until the 5 speed E300 in the late '90's...
 

Full Monte

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Yes, it is a 4-speed tranny. If memory serves, I'm doing about 2500 rpm at 65. Will need to check when I can get the car away from the wife. I'm not going to convert to an overdrive unit anytime soon, if at all. I came at it from ford diesel experience only. If I put in the 5-speed, that might be cool. It would likely cob up the wooden plate around the gear selector, but not a big deal (except to the wife). Warden, you certainly throw the technical details around...you must have been around MBZ cars a lot. On the ford, I never have gotten into the 1800-2000 target rpm range that is touted by the gurus. I'm usually at about 2200-2500 rpm at 60-65mph depending on which truck and whether it has 3.73 or 4.10 rear end. I don't push the speed on the fords because fuel is so pricey these days.
 

The Warden

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Full Monte said:
Yes, it is a 4-speed tranny. If memory serves, I'm doing about 2500 rpm at 65. Will need to check when I can get the car away from the wife. I'm not going to convert to an overdrive unit anytime soon, if at all.
If it's running 2500 RPM at 65 for sure, I wouldn't worry about it...you're pretty close to ideal already. Getting the RPM's too much lower would likely do as much harm as good...these engines like to rev higher than we're used to :) (the governor's set somewhere above 4500 RPM, and these engines were made to run right at the governor all day long)...

If I put in the 5-speed, that might be cool. It would likely cob up the wooden plate around the gear selector, but not a big deal (except to the wife).
If you were able to find a 300E 5 speed, you might be able to steal the plate from that car...or, the plate that's on there now could be adapted. I know that the 123 center console trim was the same with an auto or a 4 speed, except that the shift boot attaches to the trim (and, also, that many 4 speed 123's had manual windows, so no spaces for the switches in the trim). But, again, I think the biggest obstacle would be actually finding the tranny...personally, I would wait to swap it unless and until the auto dies.

Warden, you certainly throw the technical details around...you must have been around MBZ cars a lot.
:thanks: Some of what I know has come from direct experience...I've had my car for a bit over 3 years now and have done a reasonable amount of work on her. But, I have to give credit where it's due...I was part of a different website for a long time that is set up similar to this one but is strictly for M-B's. The diesel forum there was very active, and between having questions myself and reading other posts, I was able to learn quite a bit. But, of course, as they say, I'm still learning, as we all are. :) I only left that site because I didn't care for the changing climate...it was getting to the point where questions were only answered by someone yelling (sometimes quite rudely) at the thread starter to "do a search". :rolleyes:

When I was younger, I spent a fair amount of time on the side of various highways (notably the I-5), which did two things for me. First, it permanently turned me off to gasoline engines...second, it led me to make a strong effort to learn as much about the vehicles I owned (or was about to buy) as I possibly could. The irony there is, I've only needed this in an urgent situation once...my diesels have been so much more reliable that I've only been stranded three times since then (over the course of about 6 years now, which is a vast improvement on being stranded monthly!)...once when the battery terminal at the starter broke on my old van, once when the injector pump died on my truck, and once when the voltage regulator/contact brush assembly went out on the Benz (and then, all I needed was a jumpstart, and then drove the rest of the way to L.A. :) ).

So, I consider myself to have a reasonable knowledge on these cars, but I wouldn't call myself a guru by any means...while, to the best of my knowledge, everything I've said is accurate, as much of it is data gathered from other people as it is information I've acquired firsthand. But, IMHO, that's the way it is on these sites...people are able to learn things, and once they have learned this, they can then help others. :cool
 

Full Monte

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Warden,

I sure can relate to your experience of learning auto mechanics on the side of the road. My first car was a 1962 VW bus. I used to drive to college in San Diego from the SF Bay area and return a couple times a year. I used to break down regularly, but didn't have money for towing/repairs. I spent a LOT of time working on a hot engine with the tools I carried. As my experience grew, I got better at it. Finally, the last time I removed the engine (not at the side of the road), it took me twelve minutes. For years after I sold that bus, I used to help out other VW owners I happened to find stranded. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
 

The Warden

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Don't you just love those air-cooled VW's? -cuss My first car was a '74 Bug...owned it for 2 months (and less than 1K miles I think) of constant tinkering to keep the engine running before blowing a piston going over Pacheco Pass on a warm July day. I got lucky; AAA got me to a motel, and a friend with a CJ was willing to come tow the car home. Unfortunately, I didn't trust myself enough at the time to try and rebuild the engine, so I sold it to a friend of the family for $200. It was a fun lil' car to drive around town (when it ran), but wouldn't have been very pleasant for all the trips to southern California I do to visit family...
 

Full Monte

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After having done the work you have to that diesel, an air-cooled VW would seem like a walk in the park. The valves tended to burn, especially number 3.
If they were too loose, they would have a distinctive "vw click" sound. The beauty of it was I learned some automechanics, and some patience.
 

The Warden

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Full Monte said:
After having done the work you have to that diesel, an air-cooled VW would seem like a walk in the park. The valves tended to burn, especially number 3.
I know that now...unfortunately, when the Bug died, I was 17 and wasn't sure enough of myself to risk taking an engine apart that I wasn't certain I could put back together. In retrospect, I really wish I had tried...I know I could do it now, and I probably could have done it then. C'est la vie, I suppose...

I'm pretty sure it was the piston on this engine. My dad had owned the car previously, and the engine had already been rebuilt while he had it due to a blown piston (with a hole in the center the size of a quarter :shocked: ) in the #3 cylinder, and from the records, this was apparently not the first time it had happened.

They're fun cars to tinker on :D but I still tend to think that they don't make good daily-drivers...
 

Full Monte

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Yes, #3 was always the hot-running cylinder. Funny thing, in all the years I've been fixing cars, I've never climbed out of bed thinking "This will be a good day to tinker". I fix cars because mine are usually too old for me to afford the repairs, because I don't trust most mechanics, and because I usually do a better job myself. If I don't have anything needing fixing, I'd rather do something else. Unfortunately, I always find too many things to fix to avoid another "tinkering day".
 

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