Opened 10 1/4" diff..Hmmm

[riotwarrior]

So got back on this today and I'm draining it as I type, I'll let it drain for a while too.

Thus here are a couple shots of the chewed up open case. If the pinion is a gonner I'll not be dropping it in. If pinion is good, I'll go ahead and install the locker and get on with it. Of course until I remove axles, and the carrier I won't know for sure, but rest assured it's gonna take place and soon. I need to know *** is going on before I do all the work of installing a locker and the diff under my truck!

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And a Close up....clearly there WAS contact at some point. I'm not getting that now from what I feel.

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The ring gear looks great I don't see unusual wear patterns on it or anything, so I'm just hoping my luck holds out.

Thanks for lookin

Al

 

[79jasper]

Yup. That's how my 94 was when I had it open.
But I couldn't find anything actually wrong so I sealed it back up.

 

[ZWilson07]

Any idea what caused this? Or just something with a previous owner and no way of knowing?

 

[riotwarrior]

Yup. That's how my 94 was when I had it open.
But I couldn't find anything actually wrong so I sealed it back up.

Strange the 94 should have the longer pinion shaft and better retension of yoke.

Any idea what caused this? Or just something with a previous owner and no way of knowing?

I'm no expert but if the pinion retaining nut loosens, it can cause the pinion to walk into the carrier under loads.

I'd say that at one time that occurred, and I'm going to remove the carrier to check for issues.

As these diffs have a crush sleeve, over time it can shorten thus loosening and creating havock. Now with a Crush sleeve eliminator kit, a good bit of lock tight you should not have this issue what so ever!

JM2CW

Al

 

[ZWilson07]

Strange the 94 should have the longer pinion shaft and better retension of yoke.



I'm no expert but if the pinion retaining nut loosens, it can cause the pinion to walk into the carrier under loads.

I'd say that at one time that occurred, and I'm going to remove the carrier to check for issues.

As these diffs have a crush sleeve, over time it can shorten thus loosening and creating havock. Now with a Crush sleeve eliminator kit, a good bit of lock tight you should not have this issue what so ever!

JM2CW

Al

All the ford axles ive had with a crush sleeve usually don't have any problem with loosening up for atleast 200,000 miles +.

Acourse I never usually just leave it stock and drive it like it came from the factory for 200,000 miles without doing a gear change or lsd/locker.

 

[riotwarrior]

WOO HOO....OMG...O M G....I gotta be on one badazz lucky streak is all I CAN say...here's the poop!

PICS tell all....I mean ALL!!!

The end of Pinion, to which I was all nervous about! I was totally freaked out thinking I was gonna be replacing parts after seeing those scoring marks!

Not a mark on the end of pinion nothing at all. This has clearly been changed as the scoring on carrier would translate to severe scoring and or marks on pinion...I don't see any when I look in there ....do any of you in the pic???? NADDA!

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Pattern on the ring gear teeth

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Here you can see back side

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And after allowing the oil to drain out I flicked out the remaining oil and ya there is debris in the small pockets so I'll likely pull axles pull carrier and flush the case with some brake clean to get more out, prior to installing locker and new Pinion seal and crush sleeve eliminator if I can get one cheap enough!

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This made my day like you wouldn't believe. I'm so pleased with this as I can hopefully get to finishing the diff off and installed in next couple weeks. All that's left is two new rear shocks, then a brake line and the rubber flex brake line. I just, may spring for an extended stainless one in preparation for lift and hydroboost and disc rear conversion later on! OMG OMG I'm like a kid in a candy store excited!

Locker in rear to start, and next is locker in front diff WOOT!!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Thanks for lookin

Al

 

[ZWilson07]

Good to hear.

Whoever did the work and replaced it ( if the pinion has indeed been replaced like were thinking) did a good job setting them up. All those wear marks look right on the money.

 

[79jasper]

Found it.

So yesterday when I went to survey some tornado damage, I had been driving for nearly 30 minutes, then start slowing down because of a flooded water crossing. Well I hear this "squealing noise." Very similar to wet disc brakes of a bad carrier bearing.
So I get under there to look at everything, and find that the front half of the rear axle is pretty warm. Enough to lightly steam water, but I could easily put my face to it.
So then I pull the fill plug to check the fluid level, couldn't find anything, and the plug had somewhat new looking "shavings" on it.
Only fluid I had with me was some clear o'rielly brand power steering fluid. So I dumped that in.
Noise persisted for another mile, maybe a hair more. But it did quit.

There was absolutely ZERO play in the pinion. Also could not feel any rotational drag.

I had just changed the diff fluid a few months back. Couldn't find the fill plug at the time, so I just dumped it in through the VSS hole. Put in at least 4 quarts. But didn't do the whole jack up a side at a time thing. I've probably put at least a thousand miles on it since then.

So what I'm wandering is what do I do now?

 

[riotwarrior]

Well you just may....may be lucky,

However where did all the fluid go? Did you NOT see any fluid leaking?

Set park brake and block wheels then, I would start by removing the diff cover for one and cleaning out as much fluid as possible, as well as both axles. This will get out as much old oil as you can.

Inspect as much as you can visually put transmission in N and with axles out you can spin the diff by hand and look for any signs inside of heat damage to bearings, discolouration, galling or wear etc. You likely won't see the outer pinion bearing and that one is likely the bad one if any. Check out all the gear teeth as best you can.

Then clean up the axle faces and such and re install them, clean the diff gasket surface and the cover super clean...I mean incredibly clean NO OIL residue or it WILL NOT SEAL.


Once it's all cleaned and if you don't see any issues then either get a gasket for the rear cover or use good silicone and seal that up.

Let it cure and fill with fresh gear oil of correct visosity. I myself prefer 80-140 synthetic if I have a limited slip, and 80/90 synthetic for open.

That said all this jacking up and down and such I've personally never done for filling a FF AKA Full Floating diff.

I'm of the nature of filling the diff on the level, go drive it around find some side hills, and go both ways one side up hill then other...

Then go home recheck fluid levels and add if needed.

Not sure I could suggest much more than that for you sorry.

Worse case, you got some bearings to replace but maybe you got lucky!

 

[79jasper]

Definitely isn't leaking anywhere.
When I first started driving it again, the drivers side axle seal seemed to leak a little. But stopped after a few days.

The very front of the pinion area wasn't as warm as the rest.

I was definitely planning on another fluid change. Probably be this weekend though.

This is the same one I was talking about in a earlier post. How the carrier part had groves from the pinion, and the cover had marks from the ring gear.
But they didn't look like new injuries.

Best way to "see" bearings?
What about a way to see for sure if the pinion is still contacting the carrier?

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Pull the cover, drain oil, cut a Pepsi bottle in strips, slide one strip between the carrier and pinion hold it there while turning pinion in both directions. Have a helper put some drag on the carrier by sticking a large flat screwdriver or a small prybar between ring gear and axle housing. If pinion does in fact touch the carrier it will at some point try to grab the plastic strip from you.

Which bearings you wanna "see"? Carriers are easy, just pop the beast out and pull races and look at surface where rollers ride. Pinion bearing can be be visually inspected the same way, only then you'll be needing a new crush sleeve (or spacer and shim kit) and likely a front seal as well.

 

[79jasper]

Does the carrier get shimmed or anything? Or can I pull it then throw it right back in?

I get this weird harmonic when I'm driving. I thought it was just the front tires though. I wander if it's related.

Oh yeah..... The vent line looks broke off, but it's sorta plugged with a dirty greasey compound. (Whoops)

 

[typ4]

riot, that pinion is way harder than the case, i bought one like that and it had no pinion marks, just the carrier spirals, helps sling the oil.lol

 

[mblaney]

Have you looked at OX lockers? I really like a selectable locker and the manual cable operation seems like a very reliable design.

 

[79jasper]

If I have to replace anything, I'd like to do a gear change, or at least add a locker or LSD.