Mercedes om617 N/A In a toyota truck

[Dieselguy123]

I picked up a low mile N/A 617 that I want to put in a 91' reg cab-short bed 4x4 Toyota pickup. I know that I can make the adapters to bolt it to the Toyota w-56 5spd, my question is how reliable of a power plant would this be for a little truck. I am not really going for power, but more for economy and it being somewhat unique. I actual picked up 2 engines 1 turbo(guy told me it was blown......not sure what that means) and 1 non turbo that runs like a Swiss clock. I have read that basically the only way to kill one of these motors is to run them out of oil or break a timing chain. Anyone know of a parts supplier for these motors? I am half thinking I could get it going with the non turbo engine and if I find maybe just some bad bearings or something in the turbo motor, to just put a set of rings rods and mains in it and see what happens. What are the differences in the 2? I have read you cant just put the turbo on the non turbo engine as they have different internal....Can anyone elaborate on the subject? Thanks in advance.

 

[The Warden]

First off, I think you're going to have a problem with engine length. About 5 years ago, I had access to an '84 Toyota pickup with a blown engine and wanted to put an OM616 in....and, from measuring the engine compartment, it looked like the 616 was barely going to fit. And, keep in mind, the 617 has an extra cylinder, so it's that much longer than a 616...I tend to think that a 617 wouldn't fit without relocating the radiator. Not impossible, but certainly not easy, either. I don't know if the '91 engine compartment's any longer...

As to the differences between the turbo and the n/a ...I THINK the n/a engine doesn't have oil jets spraying the bottoms of the pistons like the turbo engines do. Also, the valves are a different material...the turbo valves are stronger and more heat-resistant. IIRC those are the main differences.

Without looking at it or at least having more info, I can't say what's wrong with the turbo engine...but, you pretty much have it right that it's pretty hard to kill one of these engines unless you run it out of oil (having an oil cooler hose blow on you's a great way to do that ) or breaking the timing chain (which is possible but VERY rare).

As to parts suppliers, check out these sites:

http://www.autohausaz.com/

http://catalog.peachparts.com/

http://www.allpartsexpress.com/ (related to, and at the same time different from the last one)

Treat these engines right and they'll last forever...I know of an engine that's in its third car now (don't know what happened to the first car, but the second car blew the tranny)...

Hope this helps some...good luck!! and post pictures!!

 

[Dieselguy123]

Hey, Thanks for all the Great info. I have seen a couple toyota trucks with the turbo 617 in them, and while keeping the radiator in the front takes some work it does fit. Do you think the 617 N/A will have enough power for a mini truck? Like I said before I am really going for fuel economy......Hoping for at least 25. I will defenatly post pictures.

 

[hheynow]

Do you think the 617 N/A will have enough power for a mini truck?

As long as you name it Yertle, quick acceleration is not expected and you don't plan on hauling heavy loads up steep grades you'll love it and it will last forever.

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[The Warden]

I tend to think that a 617 mated to a manual tranny will move the vehicle (especially a Toyota pickup, which IIRC is lighter than a 123/126) a bit faster than it will behind the factory slushbox. However, as hheynow said, don't expect it to be a speed demon, and don't plan on any heavy-hauling with it...and you should be fine BTW, I've never spent any significant time around teh n/a 617, but I know that the turbo 617's I've driven don't like to be going slower than 2500 RPM unless you're just cruising on flat ground...these engines like to be revved high, and the governor's at 5000+ RPM dyoung14 should be driving one of these, not an IDI

 

[Dieselguy123]

I've never spent any significant time around teh n/a 617, but I know that the turbo 617's I've driven don't like to be going slower than 2500 RPM unless you're just cruising on flat ground...these engines like to be revved high, and the governor's at 5000+ RPM dyoung14 should be driving one of these, not an IDI

That should be pretty good with the truck then, at 60mph they turn about 2500 rpm as they only have about a .2 overdrive, Plus I have an abundance of ring and pinion ratios to work with, I think it should be a fun little project.

 

[The Warden]

I didn't realize Toyota's overdrives were that puny!!

You'd probably be okay in the 2000 RPM range for freeway cruising, if you don't mind dropping a gear every time you get to a hill....and, certainly, lower cruising RPM's are good for fuel economy purposes...

Keep updating...I'm curious to see how things turn out

 

[hheynow]

Keep updating...I'm curious to see how things turn out

^ +1 post photos

 

[Dieselguy123]

Now for a big question, ....Flywheel balance.... I am planning on using the stock Toyota flywheel and just having it drilled to accept 6 of the 12 bolt holes on the Benz crank. I have read many different post that say the Mercedes engine is so close to neutral balance that as long as the flywheel and clutch are neutral as well you will never know the difference. There are people who have done just what I have stated and have had no problems whatsoever....but It still makes me a little curious.....especially with the Governor set at 5000+ Rpm. Any thoughts?

 

[The Warden]

I honestly don't know...although it wouldn't surprise me if that was doable. What about flywheel ring gear teeth?

When I was looking into this, I was told that the Toyota clutch disc would work properly with a Mercedes flywheel/pressure plate. I never tested this, so I don't know if that's true or not...but, if it is, I think that'll be the easiest way to go. It'll be hard to find a clutch kit for a 300D in the U.S. (since any 617 manual in the U.S. is a European gray-market import), but a clutch kit for a 240D will work just fine and shouldn't be too terribly hard to find...

 

[Dieselguy123]

Well my plan was to make the adapter plate so the Toyota stater would work as if stock (22R). I don't have a manual transmission flywheel for the 617 (from what I read, They are very hard to lay hands on). HERE Great info on how someone did it, and I like the setup, I would like to closely follow this method except I want to be sure that the balance is correct, these are expensive motors and I don't really want to have to buy another one cause it shook itself to pieces (exaggerated, but you get the point) if and when this all comes together I plan to have blueprints, dimensions and a broken down parts list. We will see....I am getting pretty exited about this little project. I love a good challenge.

 

[The Warden]

That IS some great info!! thank you for posting that link! You're right about a 617 manual flywheel being very hard to find; I was referring to a flywheel from a 240D (OM616), which is easier to find since 240D manuals were sold here. But, if modifying the Toyota flywheel can work and it's economical, then there you go!

I'm not 100% sure on the balance, although one thing to keep in mind is that, except for the turbo 617 (which I don't think was ever mated to a manual tranny from the factory), all of the OM61X engines were made to work with either a manual or an automatic...and the M-B automatic flexplate's as puny as any others would be...which makes me think that they don't have any effect on the engine balance. Certainly, I've never heard of anyone having a problem with that...

And, after seeing the pics in the other thread, I stand corrected about there being fitment issues...although the pipe to the lower water hose is QUITE close to the radiator. The guy said he got 18 mpg in mixed driving in that trail rig...I wonder what kinda mileage you'd get in one meant for road use...? FWIW I averaged 25 mpg in my first two M-B's, although the one I'm driving now only wants to do 23...

 

[typ4]

The balance will be fine, I would question if the toyota starter will turn the diesel adequately. It is easy to get the 240 flywheel but the MB starter is kinda big.

 

[Dieselguy123]

The balance will be fine, I would question if the toyota starter will turn the diesel adequately. It is easy to get the 240 flywheel but the MB starter is kinda big.

Would the 240 flywheel need to be balanced at all? I am not sure about the toyota starter, but I have seen others use them and they say that they work good. On another note, I am trying to find the differances in the turbo and non-turbo engines? Would putting a turbo on a 617.912 off of the 617.952 just grenade the engine in a short period of time? Are the blocks the same? I have A turbo engine that I was told threw a rod (haven't actually laid eyes on it yet) But I was just wondering if Cranks and rods etc....are interchangeable? Thanks

 

[The Warden]

Would the 240 flywheel need to be balanced at all? I am not sure about the toyota starter, but I have seen others use them and they say that they work good. On another note, I am trying to find the differances in the turbo and non-turbo engines? Would putting a turbo on a 617.912 off of the 617.952 just grenade the engine in a short period of time? Are the blocks the same? I have A turbo engine that I was told threw a rod (haven't actually laid eyes on it yet) But I was just wondering if Cranks and rods etc....are interchangeable? Thanks

The 240D flywheel won't need to be balanced.

As to the starters...I don't know much about the Toyota starters, but it seems to me that they're made to turn over a 4 cylinder gas engine, and a diesel with an extra cylinder and considerably higher compression's going to need something more powerful. A Toyota starter may last a while, but I imagine an M-B starter would last longer. That said, I really wish a gear-reduction M-B starter existed. I've had problems with starters on my current M-B as well as the last one, but these issues were mainly related to the solenoid.

I haven't torn down either engine, but as I understand it, the main differences between the two engines is that the turbo engine has oil squirters putting oil on the bottoms of the pistons to cool them off, and the exhaust valves are a stronger material to hold up to increased heat. I doubt putting a turbo on an n/a block would kill it immediately, but I'm pretty sure you'd shorten its life considerably...to the point where I'd rather strongly recommend not doing it. Since I haven't had either engine apart to see, I can't tell you whether you can simply swap the oil squirters onto an n/a block or not, but I tend to think you won't be able to. FWIW replacement pistons are different part numbers, so there's a difference there as well (non-turbo 300D and 240D pistons are identical).

How hard are these engines to find out there? How feasible would it be to find a turbo block? FWIW they're not uncommon at all out here...