Maiden Voyage with TC but.....isn't there always a but?....

ericboutin

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OK some of ya'll may remember I was contemplating selling The Dewey a few months ago....well then I found this TC and I spent the last two months gutting it and rebuilding it. It came out pretty great if I do say so myself! LOL. So we finally took our maiden voyage to Isle of Palms this weekend and the truck did great going down but.....she was acting a little funny on the way down getting really hot and then finally the fan would kick in and cool things right down. I didn't think to much about it but on the way home the engine light came on twice and the temp gauge pinned over. As soon as I slowed down and let her idle she would cool right down and be fine. I could then drive another 30 to 50 miles and she would heat up again. Pull over and let it idle and it would cool right down. The second time I noticed that the reservoir cap was off and hanging. I put it back on but I still had to pull over again to let it cool down. Now I did replace the coolant filter before the trip and like an idiot I don't think i "pre-filled" it before I replaced it. The last time it happened I pulled into a rest area and pulled the cap while it was running and also removed the flush cap that I installed years ago hoping that maybe it was air trapped. Anyway it never got so hot again that I had to pull over. I'm not sure if I actually purged any air or if the outside temps had dropped down enough to keep it cooler? Anyway what do ya'll think? On a side note after I left the rest area I went about 10 miles and the batt light comes on!! I'm like ***??!! Well I found out what that was about when I got off at our exit....brakes hard as rocks!! Looks like I threw the alt belt but luckily none of the other belts went with it!! That was lucky. Anyway all and all it was a great trip....truck carried the camper with no problems...She weighs in at 2400 lbs or so. And I got what I think to be great fuel mileage...11.2 if memory serves!!
 

ericboutin

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Ok i've been searching all day and I gotta just break down and ask. Is there a simple test to tell if my clutch fan is dead. Also how would I tell if all the air is out? Like I said the resevoir cap was off at one point during the trip. The cap seems a bit loose. Should it be super tight? And am I even looking in the right direction? I'm thinking the fan clutch is toast but not sure how to check for sure? Anyway those two questions please.....thanks!
 

towcat

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fan clutch- if it is worn out, it will spin more than three complete rotations after the engine running at operating tempreture is shut off.
diagnosing if air is still in the cooling system? your guess is as good as anybody elses by this point. if there is a question, drain 5 gallons of 8 gallons out of your cooloing system and use the tool mentioned in my post and you will have no doubts after using it. i really don't know what else to say.
 

ericboutin

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Roger that! As soon as I replace all the dang blame belts I will get her hot and shut her off and see what the fan does. Thanks.
 

LCAM-01XA

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Ok i've been searching all day and I gotta just break down and ask. Is there a simple test to tell if my clutch fan is dead. Also how would I tell if all the air is out? Like I said the resevoir cap was off at one point during the trip. The cap seems a bit loose. Should it be super tight? And am I even looking in the right direction? I'm thinking the fan clutch is toast but not sure how to check for sure? Anyway those two questions please.....thanks!
You said camper weighs around 2400lb, any chance you know your total weight? Reason for asking is we have a similar setup and she scales in at 11000lbs, she has electric fans and at speeds of 45mph and above we don't have to run them unless climbing a hill, on level ground forced airflow due to vehicle speed is enough to keep her under 220F (around 200F if it's a winter vacation trip). So if your weight and average speed are comparable I'd say the fan clutch is probably not the culprit, this doesn't mean it ain't dead as a doornail, but considering we don't even run it there's a good chance you have other issues as well - air in the system would be a suspect yes, but also semi-clogged radiator if yours is of ancient origins...

Also she should be able to give you a bit better mileage, especially on a summer fuel blend, we've seen up to 16mpg on the long flats where the engine just sings at 2300 rpms (no OD trans here) for hours on end. If you wanna improve it a bit you may wanna consider a removable deflector wing on the very front of the cab like some people use for their 5th wheel trailers (only theirs obviously go in the rear of the roof), at the numbers you're working with even a 1mpg improvement is noticeable. Extending the skirt under the front bumper can also be beneficial, and we've seen it done rather tastefully using polished stainless steel pieces leftover from a Chrome Shop Mafia road tractor project.
 

ericboutin

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Our total weight when we weighed was around 9500 pounds if memory serves....sheet is out in the glove box and I'm lazy...lol....but I'm sure total weight for the trip was closer to 10,000 lbs with all our crap loaded in.
Yah I'm a bit confused myself, on the way down it was unseasonably cool and the trip home it was much muggier and hot (outside temps). We got caught in a traffic jam for about 45 mins in the heat of the day and that is when it was happiest. Temp never rose above the "O" in Normal....I know but it's the only gauge i got. Then when the jam cleared and I was running highway speeds again that is when she would heat up. Then i could pull off and let it idle for 5 mins or so and she would cool right down and iI could travel another 30 - 50 miles before she started to really cross over into the "L" territory. The res cap was off at one point when I lifted the hood (not sure if that even has anything to do with it). I've had a coolant filter on now for several years and that was the one thing that I did before this trip was replace the filter and like I mentioned I did not pre fill it. Not sure if that has anything to do with it either. After I stopped the last time and released both the flushing cap and let coolant come out and the rad cap I continued on the rest of the way home...approx 45 miles with no issues at all.....if you don't count throwing the alt belt.....gotta love old trucks right....but as far as my overheating issue (if you can call it that) it did not rear it's ugly head again. Now I'm not sure if the releasing of the caps helped it or the fact that is was going on 7 pm and the temps outside were lowering was the factor. As soon as I have all the belts replaced I will try towcats suggestion for testing the fan clutch and also head towards the mountains to give her a workout and see if I can get the problem to repeat. If anyone has any other suggestions I am all ears. Thanks again!
 

ericboutin

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On a side note lcam.....you said you also have a TC...I'm still a newbie and learning about the TC. How tight or loose do you keep your turnbuckles and what tie down system are you using. Right now I'm using a Brophy style that mounts in the stake pockets. Not the most modern I know but it really did a nice job carrying the camper. My only question was about the turnbuckles. It really goes against my thought process not to cinch those things right down, I can understand the logic behind it but it also messes with my brain when you see them loose in the mirrors. lol......So what I've been doing in getting them hand tight and then backing them off about a turn to a turn and a half; or until they just start to jiggle. Does that sound about right? I've posted the same question over at rv.net but it appears folks over there are afraid to give an honest answer? Not sure why. Anyway any insight you can offer would be great, just curious to know if I'm on the right track. Thanks!
 

LCAM-01XA

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IIRC the "O" on the stock gauge is around 200F in our truck, so right around where it should be. Ours does like to run hot tho, I mean if we manage to keep her above 210F she gets better MPG, 220F seems to be the magic for the 15-16MPG. Mind you the fuel consumption on this thing seems to be the same regardless of whether there is a camper in the bed or a small trailer on the bumper or nothing at all, kinda like a big-block gasser LOL

Installing an empty coolant filter would have introduced air in the cooling system obviously, but how fast that gets purged is anyone's guess. I can tell you tho that when our fan clutch got loose she'd overheat while just idling, I got caught in a rush hour slow-crawl once and every so often I had to get on the shoulder and giver her a short run to get the air flowing thru the rad and bring the temps back down. With the e-fans if the auto-switch is unplugged she will eventually hit 240F no problem if left idling, probably even more but I wasn't very comfortable pushing it. The fact that yours cools down properly at idle suggests to me that the fan clutch is doing its job, unlike ours. And opening the flush port cap is normal to cause spill of coolant, even if no air is present in the system it's still under pressure, over 10psi with the factory rad cap, that will make it spit at you. Leaving the overflow tank cap off is irrelevant tho, that cap doesn't fit tight and the tank itself is not pressurized, you could run with no cap at all there and all will be fine unless you go offroading and start sloshing all that coolant around (in which case it just spills everywhere thru the open neck and makes a mess).

Here's a not-so-random question, do you have an EGT gauge (pyrometer)? Natural ram-air cooling effect only works so well on our truck, if we try to go kinda fast (she tops out at 75-80mph due to gearing, yours can hit and maintain 90) she will heat up and require fans to run. EGT are running quite high there tho, basically she burns a lot of fuel to be able to move at that speed and all that heat gets transferred to the coolant and oil - with just one fan she will stabilize at around 215-220 on both the coolant and oil temp gauges, if both fans run she will eventually cool off but that's on flat lands, throw any respectable hill in the way and both fans have to run or she will overheat. So my point is, maybe your fan clutch is working decent enough to handle average EGTs like what you see at 45mph, but when you're trying to keep up with interstate traffic you're burning enough fuel to heat up the coolant more than the fan (or radiator) can keep up with. Which would also explain the lousy fuel economy... How fast were you going then?

Regarding the tie-downs, we have a frame-mounted beam setup very similar to the Tork-Lift system (no spring loaded "Fastguns" tho). Stake pockets are not too strong, IMHO at least the front tie-downs need to be attached to the frame in some manner. Rears pretty much only hold the end from jumping up when you hit rough road, so they can be stake-pocketed, altho a strong bumper makes for better anchor points. How tight you get the turnbuckles, that's kind of a personal preference, we get the front ones tight enough to kinda wanna lift the end of the frame beams up a 'lil. Altho on the last trip they were apparently a bit on the loose side, and the camper had slid back by an inch or so. Rears don't need to be so tight tho, again it's more or less whatever you're comfortable with. Do keep in mind how your tie-down points are attached to the camper framework, ours are bolted across from the sides and cannot pull out like those that are just bolted in from the bottom are known to do, carriage bolts in shear beat lag bolts in tension any day IMHO. And you should never see the tie-downs just flapping in the wind as you drive, small vibration is normal but anything excessive requires pulling over and tightening. Think of them as the strings on a musical instrument, and also remember that a longer string is more elastic and has more "give" to it than a short one (another reason to run frame-mounted anchor beams on the bottom end, makes the tie-downs twice as long when compared to the stake pocket anchors). Anyways, ours get hand tightened till there is zero slack in the chains, then add another full turn and lock them in with the jam nut, then try to spin out the end without the jam nut - it will usually only back out about 1/4" turn and the pull on the turn buckle will even up with the twist of the chain and she will stabilize there. Try that for the musical string action, if it passes you should be good to go.

Oh, also consider modifying your truck bed in some manner that prevents the front and rear ends of the camper from sliding sideways, a set of simple angle brackets made of 2x2" angle iron a few inches long and bolted to the floor (one leg flat on floor, other leg straight up, camper wedges in between left and right brackets) makes a huge difference in stability and makes it somewhat easier on the tie-downs as now they only have to hold the camper from sliding off. And always put the camper all the way forward till it hits the bed wall, you may wanna build some bumpers on the lower front edge of the camper so they contact the bed wall near the floor before the camper's front wall contacts tho front top bed rail - there's nothing more annoying than a bed rail rubbing and squeaking on the camper wall. If you don't wanna modify the camper with permanent bumpers, laying a piece of 4x4 beam across the front of the bed before loading camper achieves the same effect :D

Edit: saw in your sig you have AutoMeters, what "vitals" do they monitor? At the least you'll need coolant and exhaust temperatures, oil pressure and temp are bonus but recommended. And with the E4OD, a transmission temp reading is great to have also. Boost I guess is standard with any turbo kit... LOL
 
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ericboutin

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First just a huge thanks for taking the time to give this detailed response!! The TC info is great!!! I've been doing a couple things wrong with the TC as you can see below in response to your points. So I've definitely learned a lot!!! Thanks again!!

IIRC the "O" on the stock gauge is around 200F in our truck, so right around where it should be. Ours does like to run hot tho, I mean if we manage to keep her above 210F she gets better MPG, 220F seems to be the magic for the 15-16MPG. Mind you the fuel consumption on this thing seems to be the same regardless of whether there is a camper in the bed or a small trailer on the bumper or nothing at all, kinda like a big-block gasser LOL

Absolutely same with mine. I've never seen 15 - 16 but we did get 11.5 with the camper which I thought was great considering I get about 12.5 empty.


Installing an empty coolant filter would have introduced air in the cooling system obviously, but how fast that gets purged is anyone's guess. I can tell you tho that when our fan clutch got loose she'd overheat while just idling, I got caught in a rush hour slow-crawl once and every so often I had to get on the shoulder and giver her a short run to get the air flowing thru the rad and bring the temps back down. With the e-fans if the auto-switch is unplugged she will eventually hit 240F no problem if left idling, probably even more but I wasn't very comfortable pushing it. The fact that yours cools down properly at idle suggests to me that the fan clutch is doing its job, unlike ours. And opening the flush port cap is normal to cause spill of coolant, even if no air is present in the system it's still under pressure, over 10psi with the factory rad cap, that will make it spit at you. Leaving the overflow tank cap off is irrelevant tho, that cap doesn't fit tight and the tank itself is not pressurized, you could run with no cap at all there and all will be fine unless you go offroading and start sloshing all that coolant around (in which case it just spills everywhere thru the open neck and makes a mess).

Good info! Thanks!

Here's a not-so-random question, do you have an EGT gauge (pyrometer)? Natural ram-air cooling effect only works so well on our truck, if we try to go kinda fast (she tops out at 75-80mph due to gearing, yours can hit and maintain 90) she will heat up and require fans to run. EGT are running quite high there tho, basically she burns a lot of fuel to be able to move at that speed and all that heat gets transferred to the coolant and oil - with just one fan she will stabilize at around 215-220 on both the coolant and oil temp gauges, if both fans run she will eventually cool off but that's on flat lands, throw any respectable hill in the way and both fans have to run or she will overheat. So my point is, maybe your fan clutch is working decent enough to handle average EGTs like what you see at 45mph, but when you're trying to keep up with interstate traffic you're burning enough fuel to heat up the coolant more than the fan (or radiator) can keep up with. Which would also explain the lousy fuel economy... How fast were you going then?

Clarification...when I said it was the only gauge I had I meant engine temp gauge. I have a pyro, boost, and tranny gauges. And yes on the hills she can climb up to 1000, 1100 fairly quickly and you can also see the stock temp gauge climb with the pyro. Normally going down the other side the pyro of course drops back to 7 or 800 and the stock gauge follows suit. That is what was strange on this trip...the pyro would come down but the stock gauge would not. When it would crank over past "L" I would pull off and let it idle and within 3 minutes it would come right down to "N" - "O". Since it was our maiden voyage with the TC we didn't venture over 60. (which might also explain the great fuel mileage lol) Also normally in the past like when on hills pulling our old TT the pyro would climb and the stock temp gauge would climb and then you would hear the familiar roar of the fan which I wanting to say was lacking on this trip...


Regarding the tie-downs, we have a frame-mounted beam setup very similar to the Tork-Lift system (no spring loaded "Fastguns" tho). Stake pockets are not too strong, IMHO at least the front tie-downs need to be attached to the frame in some manner. Rears pretty much only hold the end from jumping up when you hit rough road, so they can be stake-pocketed, altho a strong bumper makes for better anchor points. How tight you get the turnbuckles, that's kind of a personal preference, we get the front ones tight enough to kinda wanna lift the end of the frame beams up a 'lil. Altho on the last trip they were apparently a bit on the loose side, and the camper had slid back by an inch or so. Rears don't need to be so tight tho, again it's more or less whatever you're comfortable with.

Great Info thanks! I was actually leaning towards at least beefing up the front with some type of frame mounted system as I imagined those anchor points did more of the work. This just confirms it! Luckily the camper did not slide in any direction as far as I can tell on this trip. Thanks!


Do keep in mind how your tie-down points are attached to the camper framework, ours are bolted across from the sides and cannot pull out like those that are just bolted in from the bottom are known to do, carriage bolts in shear beat lag bolts in tension any day IMHO.

Great thing about gutting and rebuilding this TC is I actually had to replace one of the anchor points so I got to see them up close and personal. They are carriage eyebolts through a 2x3 piece of wood. I beefed up with a large washer so very little chance of it ripping out.....hopefully.


And you should never see the tie-downs just flapping in the wind as you drive, small vibration is normal but anything excessive requires pulling over and tightening. Think of them as the strings on a musical instrument, and also remember that a longer string is more elastic and has more "give" to it than a short one (another reason to run frame-mounted anchor beams on the bottom end, makes the tie-downs twice as long when compared to the stake pocket anchors). Anyways, ours get hand tightened till there is zero slack in the chains, then add another full turn and lock them in with the jam nut, then try to spin out the end without the jam nut - it will usually only back out about 1/4" turn and the pull on the turn buckle will even up with the twist of the chain and she will stabilize there. Try that for the musical string action, if it passes you should be good to go.

Awesome analogy!! Thanks!! This is exactly the information I needed!!!


Oh, also consider modifying your truck bed in some manner that prevents the front and rear ends of the camper from sliding sideways, a set of simple angle brackets made of 2x2" angle iron a few inches long and bolted to the floor (one leg flat on floor, other leg straight up, camper wedges in between left and right brackets) makes a huge difference in stability and makes it somewhat easier on the tie-downs as now they only have to hold the camper from sliding off. And always put the camper all the way forward till it hits the bed wall, you may wanna build some bumpers on the lower front edge of the camper so they contact the bed wall near the floor before the camper's front wall contacts tho front top bed rail - there's nothing more annoying than a bed rail rubbing and squeaking on the camper wall. If you don't wanna modify the camper with permanent bumpers, laying a piece of 4x4 beam across the front of the bed before loading camper achieves the same effect :D

Again awesome info!! Definitely never thought of using angle brackets to help with the side to side action. I'm sure that also helps in getting the camper loaded evenly from side to side! As part of the rebuild I put a 2x4 up front (used as support for the platform step on the inside for getting into the bed) anyway I was thinking this would also double as a bumper for when putting into the bed of the truck but again because I'm a newbie we left space when putting the camper in the bed for this trip.....about 3 -4 inches to be exact. We weren't sure if it should be all the way snug or not so again great info!!! Thank you!


Edit: saw in your sig you have AutoMeters, what "vitals" do they monitor? At the least you'll need coolant and exhaust temperatures, oil pressure and temp are bonus but recommended. And with the E4OD, a transmission temp reading is great to have also. Boost I guess is standard with any turbo kit... LOL

Oops I just saw this edit. I think I already answered above. Thank you again for the great information!!
 

franklin2

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Your truck is acting just like mine was. I had a slide in also. You could pretty much push on the throttle, and watch the temp gauge go up. Let off the throttle, the temp guage would go down. I went on a 2000 mile round trip with it acting this way, but once I got out of the hills in Va and Tenn and into the flatter land down in Alabama and Florida, the heating problem would go away. It only happened when you "pushed" the engine. I also experienced relief from this in the evening and at night when the temps were lower.

I think you have answered your own question, and the same thing fixed mine....the fan. I rebuilt the cooling system and put a new radiator in with no success. I finally bolted my fan solid, and it does not overheat now. I can push the throttle to the floor on a long climb, and the temp will go up to about 215 or so, but it never keeps going up like it used to. You said you heard your fan kick on and everything cooled down. You should have heard that every time the engine heated. Since you didn't comment on that happening anymore, I am thinking the fan clutch is your problem.

I heard so many horror stories on the brand new clutches people were buying, and they are not cheap, I just went ahead and used small angle iron brackets and bolted the pulley hub solid to the fan clutch blade bolts. It may hurt my fuel mileage a little bit, but I haven't seen a noticeable difference.

About your tie-downs, I can say from experience I know why they sell those fancy frame mount systems. I had homemade brackets on the front stake pockets, and I was doing fine till about 3/4 through the trip I turned into a gas station that had a particularly deep drainage swell where you turned in off the main road, and when the truck twisted it pulled one of the front tie-downs right out of the bed sheetmetal. I used a ratchet strap after that to hold it for the rest of the trip. I did have the rear tie-downs hooked to the bumper.
 

franklin2

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Here's mine. I got rid of it later and got a trailer, I got tired of hauling it around site seeing or having to get it off the truck to go site seeing. I know people who like these things because they can pull their boat behind it.

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ericboutin

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Alrighty here is a bit of an update....as I said earlier on the last leg of the trip I threw the alt belt, the other three stayed on. Strangely it was on that leg of the trip without an alt belt that the "overheating" stopped (this was also when I let it idle in the rest area with the caps off hoping to purge air). Anyway today I replaced all four belts and took her for a ride up the interstate towards the mountains so I could get her good and hot again. As I was climbing I tried to really get on her and get the egt's up as high as i could reaching 1100 and 1200 on quite a few hills. I couldn't ever get the stock "temp" gauge up over "a". I don't believe the fan ever engaged, once I crossed into NC it started to rain so I spun around and started back for home. As soon as I got off the highway to head back in the other direction the fan came on and cooled everything down again. I got on it hard and got back up to speed but the fan was still running and I couldn't get the temps to climb again until it shut off, then I couldn't ever get her past "a" again. Switching from one interstate to another on a 20 mph ramp the fan started to roar again and brought the temps back down to the "n", "o" range. This last leg is about 10 miles and the temp rose to the middle of the range. Once I got off the interstate onto the surface streets again the temperature went back down to the n and o again and never rose all the way home. Once I got home I did as Towcat suggested and the fan is definitely not spinning more than 1 revolution upon shutoff. It almost comes right to a stop. Soooooo.....like Franklin said I thought I had answered my own question but I think I'm going with air in the system that finally purged itself out? The only issue I have with my test tonight is that it was again during "cooler" temps if you call low 80's cool. I may try and make the same run tomorrow during lunch and see if I can get it to overheat.....seems weird trying to get your truck to overheat...lol. While I was changing the belts I also purple powered the fan clutch, fan and rad and sprayed any and all gunk off. Anyway I'm not sure if the mystery is solved or not but I certainly can't re-create it.

Yah Franklin so far we really like the TC. We've got motorcycles; both dirt and road bikes and we want to be able to tow them around with us. My youngest and I like to go ride the dirt bikes and my wife and I like to ride the road bikes. If I had my way I would ride the road bike on all trips but my wife doesn't like to ride far plus she's only got a 500cc so it's not exactly a touring bike. lol.....so when we go camping we hope to take the road bikes with us and they will be our transportation so we don't need to use the truck once setup at the campground. We had a TT for several years but it got old having to take two vehicles to bring any toys along. We are hoping this solves that. I think without a doubt either a belly bar or torklifts are in my future at least for the front.
 

LCAM-01XA

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Sure sounds like your fan clutch is doings its job properly. Low 80s is plenty enough to test her, hell ours would try overheat in single-digit temperatures if left idling while she still had the bad fan clutch. Oh, by the way, we also locked the fan to the water pump as an alternative to hit-or-miss aftermarket clutches, just like Franklin has his but using slightly different system, same effect tho. Problem we ran into with that was at higher engine speeds she was wasting fuel unnecessary, I mean the ram air would have been sufficient to cool her down but the fan was running anyways. Wasn't a big deal till the E4OD got pulled in favor of a 4-speed and cruise RPMs jumped to nearly 2500, then something HAD to be done and e-fans were the result.

You mentioned you air-blew the radiator, if a lot of stuff flew out then that could have been a factor too... But I'm tempted to agree it was ultimately an air pocket trapped in the system somewhere, and now it finally got purged thru the rad cap. These kinda situations are what could benefit from an oil temp gauge too, it actually reacts to higher EGTs faster and somewhat more accurate. I'd suggest before your next big trip plan on aftermarket coolant an oil temp gauges, if you can group them together with the other temp gauges (pyro and transmission) that would work quiet nice as you can keep track of all of them at once :D

Regarding your camper, sounds like the tie-down points won't be giving you much trouble, large (fender) washers on top of thick solid wood is a very solid setup. Ours got the 2x4 beams treatment on the inside of the walls for similar reasons, the bolts for the plates go thru the sides of the camper and thru said 2x4s, also which run the full length of the interior walls - if those tie-down plates ever pull the bolts thru we got much bigger issues to worry about LOL But yeah, copy Tork-Lift's front beams that bolt to the frame, or come up with your own setup that achieves the same thing. Rear IMHO ain't as important when the front of the camper is laying against the front bed wall or some spacer leaned against it. Regarding pulling the camper all the way forward, just make sure it will hit the front bed wall before its wings crush your tail-lights. And if you don't wanna put holes in your bed for the side-to side guide plates of the angle-iron variety, you can instead build a snug-fitting frame out of 2x3s or 2x4s and use that just laying on the bed floor and drop the camper inside it.
 
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franklin2

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It does sound like your fan is working now. Some people still don't like it though, according to the factory gauge system when you hit "L" you are "overheated". Someone said when you are on the "a", you are about 230 degrees which make some people uncomfortable. Around the "o' is usually 190-200. The factory fan waits a long time before it decides to kick in.

I cruise at about 70mph, and with my drivetrain I am at about 1900rpm. I can hear the fan start roaring when I get above 2000 rpm, so I am just below when the point were it seems to eat a lot of horsepower.
 

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