How do y’all like to shift your ZF5’s?

jrollf

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Excuse me!! I had a 4x4 gas zf5 took everything out of it and swapped gears around onto my diesel one. It is not a beginner job. So yes it was a custom build.
And if you don't think that is what I have , being you seem to know me enough to call me a liar?
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I apologize, didn't mean to sound like I doubted you built a custom ZF, quite the contrary, I've seen them and have weighed the pros and cons of one myself.

I meant to say I doubt the OP has a modified ZF.

1993 F350 Crew Cab Dually
7.3L IDIT with a Banks Sidewinder
ZF 5-spd manual transmission
 

IDIBRONCO

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As for me, my Blue Truck has 3.55s and it shifts much differently than my Bronco with 4.10s did. It's even the same transmission, clutch, pressure plate, and SMF flywheel. With my Bronco, I could just get rolling to maybe 3-4 MPH and shift quickly into second. The Bronco didn't mind that at all. The Blue Truck, on the other hand, doesn't like this at all. What it likes is to be rolling at 12+ MPH, then I have to hold the speed for a few seconds (maybe 10 seconds) and then shift it into second. The rest of the shifts go easier, but it still prefers higher RPM shifting. When I shift, I don't try to speed shift like it's a race car. It's not. I let the transmission decide when to go into and out of gears. I'm just there to guide it along. During down shifts, I'll usually try to RPM match the engine and transmission if I'm going down through the gears. It seems to like this better. Now, if I'm coming up to a stop sign on the highway without a lowered speed limit (like going into a town), I'll usually use the brakes to lessen my speed and then an around 40MPH or so, I'll clutch and shift into neutral, coming to a complete stop in neutral with the clutch pedal out. When taking off from a complete stop, out of habit, I'll shift into second and then up into first before letting out the clutch. My first manual transmission car had reverse all the way to the left and forward. It was supposed to have a detent to prevent getting to reverse without pushing down on the shifter, but that quit working nor long after I started driving the car. I got tired of going into reverse when trying to hit first so I developed the second-into-first habit and still do this 30+ years later. Now upshifting these trucks (it's been long enough that I don't remember how the 4 speeds act so I'm only talking about the ZF5s here) is a totally different procedure than any other manual transmission car or truck that I've ever come across. They way that I learned to upshift these back in the early 90's is to almost completely let out on the clutch pedal before pushing down on the throttle. You want to have little to no throttle input when the clutch pedal is fully released. If you do this, the upshift will be smooth without and extra jerking. Much throttle at all when the pedal is released seems to make the truck jerk forward some. I guess I basically shift like an old granny, but my truck still goes wherever I want it to without any strange clutch or transmission issues.
As what gear to start out from a standstill from, this is my example. While I was working on these for a living, the shop owner had a scrap iron business. For a couple of years, his daily work truck was a 1995 F350 CC Dually with a PSD and a ZF5. At about 205,000 miles, his dual mass flywheel went bad so naturally, I got to replace it. He pulled around a big front end loader (I have no idea what I was these days) on a goose neck trailer. He had a John Deere tractor fuel tank in the bed for extra fuel, and he often carried around a fork load of scrap metal on the trailer as well. I know that the entire rig weighed well over 30,000 Lbs. While I was replacing the flywheel, the clutch looked like it had at least half of it's life left. His theory on driving this was "I take off in first gear like you're supposed to do and I don't try to drive it like it's a G** D*** race car!". I did learn something from him.
 

Fision

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Sometimes I wonder if the old t18 + a gear vendors wouldn't be a better set up than the zf. Those old cast iron 4spds were nearly bullet proof.

or a zf5-s47 + GV/US Gear OD:). Still issues with the synchros, but a wider gear range with 10 forward gears. I assume it would be a pain setting one up with a 4x4, but it would be sweet!
The split ratios would be welcome pulling a hill while loaded- keep the rpm’s in the sweet spot.
I would prefer it setup for double overdrive so the engine didn’t have to sing alto at 70mph, but presumably with a GV/US Gear it could be installed backwards to act as an underdrive? I think I’ve heard others talk about that, but it may only apply to the US Gear model. Underdrive would be nice if frequently towing heavy.

Regardless, catbird7 makes sense- a t-18 + GV beats a solo zf5 regardless of flavor. 8 gears vs 5.
 

Bakersk896

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The 89 F-47 i have only has 86k original miles so I've been lucky with it over the years having good synchros. Somehow the donor for the F-100 is also super tight with no slop. The only issue i have had to deal with was a failed slave cylinder. 1st gear is always preferred on flat or steeper grade stop. It may seem like its an immediate shift but that tranny is too heavy to be pulling for ***** and giggles for a clutch swap especially with a transbrake on the back. Which by the way, the 4x4 trannies are the same as the ones with a transbrake. Saved on cost for designing the transbrake
 

IDIBRONCO

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Sometimes I wonder if the old t18 + a gear vendors wouldn't be a better set up than the zf. Those old cast iron 4spds were nearly bullet proof.
Now this is strictly my opinion. No it wouldn't. I like the way that the ZF5 shifts much better than the 4 speeds do. After all of this time with a ZF5, I'm not sure that I could stand to go back to a 4 speed just for the way they shift.
 

Fision

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Well I am sorry if I miss understood it. Sounded like he was questioning me. And yes it was some work. but it made a truck that will heavy pull, I pull a manligt that weights 15 k behind the truck , so that and he trailer are like 18-19k .
I apologize, didn't mean to sound like I doubted you built a custom ZF, quite the contrary, I've seen them and have weighed the pros and cons of one myself.

I meant to say I doubt the OP has a modified ZF.


THIS is a big part of what makes OILBURNERS the best!
How often do you hear people civilly explain themselves and apologize anymore? Especially on the internet?! Many forums are appalling! Downright MEAN.
Misunderstandings ARE going to happen, and it’s wonderful being in a community of adults who can work through them like adults.

Which probably means “Great job moderators!” You’re the ones that set (and maintain) the culture. And the civil culture brings the civil people.
 

chillman88

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I understand everyone preaching start out in 1st, but I find myself slipping the clutch just as much in 1st so it doesn't jerk :dunno I've only been driving stick for about 10 years so it's completely possible I've been doing something wrong LOL
Granted, any load at all and I do start in 1st, but running around empty I never bother. Honestly I wish first was lower when I have a loaded trailer.


It is a lot easier to float a MDT or HDT rig than a pickup truck, since most pickups have synchronized transmissions. You really shouldn't float a synchronized transmission unless it's an emergency (clutch goes out) or you will damage the synchros. That is why most pickups are tough to float, they are meant to be shifted with the clutch.


Rock

I actually surprised myself. I had been driving Diego (E4OD) for months. And driving an international flatbed (manual) all day at work. I hopped in my dually and just slipped it from 2nd to 3rd without even realizing it. I'd tried it before once on purpose without luck, so imagine my surprise when it went so smooth I didn't even realize it until after I had done it LOL
 

Randy Bush

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THIS is a big part of what makes OILBURNERS the best!
How often do you hear people civilly explain themselves and apologize anymore? Especially on the internet?! Many forums are appalling! Downright MEAN.
Misunderstandings ARE going to happen, and it’s wonderful being in a community of adults who can work through them like adults.

Which probably means “Great job moderators!” You’re the ones that set (and maintain) the culture. And the civil culture brings the civil people.
I apologize, didn't mean to sound like I doubted you built a custom ZF, quite the contrary, I've seen them and have weighed the pros and cons of one myself.

I meant to say I doubt the OP has a modified ZF.

1993 F350 Crew Cab Dually
7.3L IDIT with a Banks Sidewinder
ZF 5-spd manual transmission
It is all good, I miss understood the post.


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The_Josh_Bear

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Dang some of you plum wore out your transmissions!!

For reference I've always preferred a stick shift and have been driving myself around for 19 years, and professionally with class B MDT's for 14 years. The MDT's I've driven were 5 or 6 speed synchronized trannys. (The Spicer 6-speed can eat me. That thing will make you hate stick shifts)

First tip: use Redline MTF(or your favorite brand's MTF) or synthetic ATF. This is paramount!
So my little rig has been mine for about 13 years and probably around 130k. It needed new 1-2 and 2-3 synchros when I bought it...they've never been replaced. It's just now starting to annoy me enough to fix it so I'll be getting a rebuild or a core to rebuild in the next year or so.

I changed my DMF for SMF about 6 years ago. It was slipping internally and not at the main clutch disc.

For the 1st vs 2nd start: I had 4.10's until 2.5 years ago. I'm still getting used to the 3.55's as stupid as that sounds.
So until I switched to 3.55 I never started in 1st without a reason(hill, towing, both). Now I still don't have to, but typically do. If I can roll AT ALL I'm in 2nd. Again that would change with a load.
In my opinion 2nd gear empty starts with 4.10 is just fine for the long term if you aren't jamming the go pedal. 3.55 is pushing it for every day use.

I don't double clutch the ZF, I'm not sure what the reason would be. It doesn't do anything that isn't attained by patience and timing, and is highly annoying to boot.
I've never driven a non-synchronized transmission but have no issues "floating" this ZF or the Spicer in our MDT. I don't do it much, but for fun and practice if the clutch goes out I will a little here and there. I think if you just barely push the stick into gear you have the right timing etc. The pressure you put on the stick is what burns up the synchros. I've heard it both ways of course and I'm not going to be the test mule. But knowing physics a little I'd be willing to bet a patient, skilled hand at gear floating wouldn't do any more damage to the transmission than using the clutch.
The big difference is that floating the transmission is much slower to operate and has less useful range.

Hope that helps!
-Joshua
 

snicklas

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For me, the ZF we had, (92 - F-250, RC 2wd 3.55) always seemed to shift more like a bigger truck (medium duty) transmission than a passenger vehicle transmission.

More of a throttle off, clutch, chunk......... chunk............ chunk, clutch on, throttle on instead of throttle, clutch, chunk..chunk..chunk, clutch, throttle of a passenger vehicle transmission.

It was also much happier to wind out before a shift rather than shifting at 2000 RPM......
 

bilbo

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I usually just use one clutch press while shifting between any of the gears. I do the same while downshifting, getting the rpms close to where they need to be before trying to move into the lower gear. I start out in 1st if I'm dead stopped, 2nd if I'm rolling, and shift around 2k. A little higher than that when I'm pulling a trailer. This truck kind of behaves like the old TopKick I used to drive when I did snow removal. Shifting has to be kind of slow and deliberate.

One thing I noticed was when I set my timing to 9.5 (from ~14) degrees, the drivetrain felt much more forgiving. If I didn't let the clutch back in just right the truck would jerk. If I didn't unload correctly when taking the clutch out it would rattle and clunk. Especially downshifting. It feels like a whole new truck now. I've noticed the EGT gets a bit higher than it used to so I'll have to keep an eye on that but so far I like the change.
 

1mouse3

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Sometimes I wonder if the old t18 + a gear vendors wouldn't be a better set up than the zf. Those old cast iron 4spds were nearly bullet proof.


I think a ranger would be a better option since would before the transmission as aposed to post transfer case.
 

1mouse3

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I'll clutch and shift into neutral, coming to a complete stop in neutral with the clutch pedal out. When taking off from a complete stop, out of habit, I'll shift into second and then up into first before letting out the clutch. My first manual transmission car had reverse all the way to the left and forward. It was supposed to have a detent to prevent getting to reverse without pushing down on the shifter, but that quit working nor long after I started driving the car. I got tired of going into reverse when trying to hit first so I developed the second-into-first habit and still do this 30+ years later. Now upshifting these trucks (it's been long enough that I don't remember how the 4 speeds act so I'm only talking about the ZF5s here) is a totally different procedure than any other manual transmission car or truck that I've ever come across. They way that I learned to upshift these back in the early 90's is to almost completely let out on the clutch pedal before pushing down on the throttle. You want to have little to no throttle input when the clutch pedal is fully released. If you do this, the upshift will be smooth without and extra jerking. Much throttle at all when the pedal is released seems to make the truck jerk forward some. I guess I basically shift like an old granny, but my truck still goes wherever I want it to without any strange clutch or transmission issues.

I find operating a manual is like a dance and knowing point of engagement is key so you dont stubble, this is the point I sit at for a stop or start of giving throttle for a upshift. Ever engine has it own rpm range it likes to be in and goal is to keep to in that band, for my 6.9 a soft upshift is 22-2500rpm and a hard upshift is 2600rpm+ were a down shift is below 1800rpm. I shift like a auto with a shift kit, lite on the throttle its like butter and a bit hard it will sink you futher into the seat. I dont cluch to get out a gear and stab for a unkown amount as going into the next, with the click of the next gear I let off the clutch as givng throttle. The throttle is not all or nothing but is about reaching the desired start rpm of the next gear by time the cluch is off so you dont get a surge. I dont hang out in natural and will down shift as slowing down to engine brake. I can hop in most anything with a manual and drive like is second nature, I dislike those without feed back since end up confused what gear Im in and end wasting time hunting for it. I have found 2nd to be the home gear for transmission with underdrive 1st that I have driven, its what aids in getting into 1st and reverse without a scratch or brick wall.



Now this is strictly my opinion. No it wouldn't. I like the way that the ZF5 shifts much better than the 4 speeds do. After all of this time with a ZF5, I'm not sure that I could stand to go back to a 4 speed just for the way they shift.


Im in the other boat and like how the t18/t19 shifts, it matches how I shift with proper feedback given. Since I have 4.53 gears and like the spread of the t19 here, I might try out a zf5 if found cheap. If a arm and leg is what has to be given for one, Id rather get a underdrive ranger and go to 3.55. There is tho dobble underdrive fuller 6 speeds that peek my interest but not sure the effort is worth the swap.
 

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