Help with glowplug controller

[redstang410]

Hi,

I recently replaced my glowplug controller as well as my Ip Pump.
Thanks mel the Moose Pump runs great.

Any ways, my truck glows and starts great when cold.
I can tell the plugs are glowing because the volt meter drops to 10.5 volts when glowing and pops to 12 when ready to start.

It always starts within a second or 2 of crancking when cold.

Once the engine gets nice and warm, the plugs don't glow. The voltmeter stays steady at 12 volts and you really have to crank the starter a while to get it to fire.
If I short out the solenoid to get the plugs glowing, it will fire right away

I'm thinking I got a bad controller, or maybe the relay is sticking.
I don't think its the pump as its New, or the plugs cause they glow about 12 to 15 sec when cold and fire up right away.

Any advice? I haven't checked jumping the solenoid yet to see if the solenoid is sticking yet. I would rather get the controller working right than jerry rigging a bypass switch.


My Truck BTW

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Thanks,

Julio

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Man that's a sweet truck, was it you whom we saw plowing through them very muddy mountain roads with a bunch of other folks in F-series trucks and Jeeps?

On to your issue - a hot engine requires no glowplugs action to fire, actually in mine I wired up the controller to the thermo switch that controls the fast idle so the controller stays off when the coolant temp is above 115F. Really the only times my glow plugs work is when the engine has cooled down nice and good, even if it's only lukewarm the plugs will not glow - saves me wear and tear on the plugs, and truck don't need them anyways. The factory setup itself even without mods like mine is actually somewhat temperature sensitive, when the engine is all warmed up the plugs will only glow for a few seconds, less than 5 in my case, as compared to 15-20 seconds of glowing on cold winter days. Again tho, a hot engine needs no plugs to start, so yours should fire just wine. A no-start condition when hot on the other hand could be a sign the pressure head in the IP is worn - dunno if lots of cranking will overcome the issue tho...

 

[argve]

Do you hear the clicking when she's warm?

sounds like to me that you have some bad wiring connections concerning the glow plug relay... Good clean solid wiring connections are paramount in the glow plug system because of how it determines if the plugs are hot enough to be taken into the "after glow" process.

 

[redstang410]

Yeah I post pictures and videos of trips we do down here on the internet.
www.4x4panama.com.
Mostly mud and hills.

The controller doesn't click when warm. my engine usually requires it to click on even if its only a couple of seconds. It fires right away.

Actually i failed to mention that i changed my thermostat to a cooler one. mainly because its really hot down here and it helps keep temps under control.
it used idle at 200 F Now its usually at 180F.

Could it be this also a factor?
I know that before when hot i didn't wait for the plugs to glow, it just fired when it was at temperature.
maybe it now requires a couple of seconds of glow to fire at a cooler temp.

I will check the connections first though.

Thanks for the help.

 

[dyoung14]

Hey thats the truck everyone keeps arguing if its a idi turbo or a powerstroke, I knew it was an idi!!

Anyway as said above a warm engine should not need glowplugs, did you have it timed correctly with a timing meter?


by the way- VERY NICE IDI TRUCK!!!

 

[Agnem]

Julio, your truck is AWESOME! I can't read much spanish, but I enjoyed this thread... http://4x4panama.com/foro/showthread.php?t=12 and pretty much understood it all. That's a nice group you have, and your activities are fantastico! I loved the hill climb video with the Moose Pump. I am also surprised you need glow plugs to fire when hot, but if it starts fine with them, then I suppose we will not question why. Obviously the glow plugs used to cycle for you, so they should again. My guess would be that you may have a wiring issue. Possibly a connector is expanding due to the heat, and not allowing the GPC to operate properly. It should be a fairly easy problem to troubleshoot with a volt meter. Just determine if the glow plug relay is being energize or not, and then you will know if it is the low current side or the high current side that is giving you the problem. That's some great looking scenery you have down there, and obviously you have a very wild and abundant wilderness in which to play.

 

[redstang410]

Thanks for the compliments.
We do have alot of fun down here. And luckily we can get away with alot of mods that couldn't be done in other countries that have more sofisticated legislation.

I even use gin in my water methanol injection.

The moose pump has really made a difference in what gear i can pull doing those hill climbs. I used to not have enough wheelspeed to go up those hills, and used to rely on chains or winch.

I am thinking about a set of BB code inyectors or maybe some moose misters, as my egt's stay about 1100 f even when under heavy throttle. Thanks to the water injection. Did i mention i run Propane too?

I'm starting to think that wiring may be the issue with my glow plugs.
Although i failed to mention that i run an electric lift pump with a return bypass style regulator.
Could a low pressure to the IP cause hard starting?

I've been having issues with crud in the fuel tank, and my 40 micron pre pump filter has needed cleaning several times already.

I do have some more videos on you tube if you're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/user/redstang410

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Julio, I wouldn't think fuel pressure has anything to do with your hot-start issues, for the sole reason that once I gravity-fed a 6.9 with a dead lift pump off a fuel can strapped on the cab roof and the engine fired right up and ran strong enough to where we were able to limp the truck back home.

Back on your glowplugs issue - the way the controller determines how long to keep the plugs lit is by sensing their combined resistance, the hotter the plugs get their resistance goes up and the glow time goes down to a point where the controller shuts the power relay off for good. I believe Mel is onto something with his suggestion of a semi-loose connector at one (or maybe more) of the glowplugs - if that connector barely makes contact when the engine is cold, it's possible that when the engine reaches operating temperature the connector expands just enough to break contact - this results in increased combined resistance of the glowplugs circuit, and the controller will interpret that as if the plugs are too hot to continue glowing and will therefore not even power up the relay that feeds them. So I guess this would mean that you should start pulling the wires off the glowplugs one at a time and checking how tight the connectors stay on the plugs and if there are any signs of sparking and/or corrosion.

On a slightly different note, I'me left with the impression that your glowplugs system is all-factory, as in you do not have a switch to override it and manually glow the plugs - is that correct? May I suggest that you install such a switch, it adds an extra peace of mind when you know that regardless of what your controller thinks you can still fire up your engine - for instance last winter I lost two plugs as I was heading out for my vacation, and for next several weeks I was firing up on 6 plugs just fine despite the evil cold, this was only possible cause of the override switch that allowed me to run the plugs for 20 seconds even tho the controller only gave me 5-7 seconds...

 

[Rot Box]

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.........

............... Oh dang that is one sweet truck!

 

[redstang410]

I probably will end up with an override switch. But will try to resolve the controller issue properly. I just need to find space for another switch.

another pict.

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Thanks for all the help.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

do try the connectors at the glowplugs for looseness with the engine hot, it may just be the culprit...

 

[gatorman21218]

Im very impressed with your truck, as well as your english!

 

[plywood]

What kind of GPs are installed?

Brands other than Motorcraft/Beru may not have the same resistance measurements at different temperatures that the controller was made to work with.

I was once told it is good to have your GPs working when the engine has cooled some so that your injector tips and the precups are hot and therefore preventing carbon buildup and such.

 

[redstang410]

I run Motorcraft Plugs.
I haven't gotten around to messing with the wiring yet.
I'll post results when i do.

 

[HammerDown]

Your tires are too big, it'll mes with your GP's for sure.