Heating oils WM/T/GO/WVO for centrifuging..an idea...

[riotwarrior]

I was given an old Karcher HOT water pressure washer....doesn't work. I was thinking of taking the coils in the heater section and running a propane burner in there and pumping Waste oils through the coils prior to centrifuging...perhaps getting upwards of 240+ degrees...

Is there a down side to heating to this level? I would think that I should be able to get any water to steam off as it goes from the the heating coils and pours into a barrel then gets pumped to centrifuge...

The burner setup currently is supposed to be fired on diesel....however that mechanism is not functioning some kind of electrical issue, and I don't know how to make it work or I would thus making use of WO to fire the heater to make WO.

I have seen barrel heaters and don't like their function they don't work as well as alleged, having much experience with them with polyester fbierglass resins in barrels heated by band heaters that just don't work well...takes a long time to bring an oil barrel of resin up any amount what so ever.

So...whats yer take gentlemen?

 

[PsycoBob]

Band heaters are self-temperature regulated, rather than checking fluid temperature. A hot-water heater element of the same wattage takes about half the time, as it doesn't keep cycling the heater as the element hits the setpoint. My band heater works fine on an insulated steel drum. Hits 200F after a few hours, from 65F startpoint. My setup has a relief valve that keeps the cold-oil pressure below the centrifuge's max, so I turn the pump on with cold oil. I suspect the circulating oil helps the heater warm it up quicker. Resin's pretty darned thick when cold, isn't it?

I admit that a faster heater would be nice, even if it's a propane camping instant water heater. I'd suppose that pressure washer heater can be modded to run propane easily enough. I'd mostly be worried about the peak temperatures in the heat exchanger. Is the heater meant to run at full 3k+psi from the pressure washer, or is it suction-side? If it's suction side, the water may be intended to boil if the temps get too high. Getting oil to 240F isn't a bad idea, it'll help flash the water to steam in the centrifuge.

I thought about a large pot of water with a copper coil in it to pump wmo thru- 15K BTU/hr & no chance of overheating the wmo. Maybe a furnace-style hot-water circulation pump to move automotive coolant from the Karcher to a copper loop in the WMO drum.

 

[ADV]

What I was told from the pabiodiesel guy is you want your oil between 160 and 180 for centrifuging.

 

[PsycoBob]

Hotter oil gets clean faster. It also causes injury & property damage, especially if someone mixes something stupid like gasoline into the stuff. 300F is a safe temperature for conventional oil, synthetic can go a lot higher. Didn't we need a supply of boiling oil in case the peasants revolt?

The upper limit is defined by the rubber bits in your system. Buna-N seals found in most hydraulic pumps are good to 250, viton will take 400.
http://www.marcorubber.com/material_chart.htm

If the oil gets past the 212, you risk having the water in the oil flash boil, causing the drum to foam up like a monster. If the heating's going on in the feed line rather than in the drum, it'll boil out as soon as it vents back to the drum, causing it to splash a bit. if that happens in the centriuge, you'll hear it, it's pretty distinctive.

 

[Brad S.]

Is your heart set on heating the mixes???
I'll let wmoguy answer this, but I think he does all his "cold filtering"

 

[diezelcrazee]

I'm getting 160 degrees (measured with a temp gun on the outside of the pipe) with one of these. Have it set up right before my centrifuge. It takes it about 5 minutes to get the line up to that temp.

http://www.wvodesigns.com/1000wat120v-immersion-heater.html

 

[wmoguy]

I cold filter mine. Just get your viscosity right before start filtering. I haven't heated my oil in at least the last 1k gallons of fuel. For giggles this last tank I made last week i did heat it to 160 degrees and filtered. The crap that came out of the fuge looked no diferent than it does when cold filtering.

The reason PA and all the other suggest heating the oil is because of the importance of getting the fuel to the right viscosity. The way I look at it, is I"m not putting thick oil thru my injection pump, so might as well mix it up during filtering and get the viscosity like I'd like to burn it at.

 

[leswhitt]

I cold filter mine. Just get your viscosity right before start filtering. I haven't heated my oil in at least the last 1k gallons of fuel. For giggles this last tank I made last week i did heat it to 160 degrees and filtered. The crap that came out of the fuge looked no diferent than it does when cold filtering.

The reason PA and all the other suggest heating the oil is because of the importance of getting the fuel to the right viscosity. The way I look at it, is I"m not putting thick oil thru my injection pump, so might as well mix it up during filtering and get the viscosity like I'd like to burn it at.

I'm in the same boat, I run W83 and don't see a need to heat the mix since it's already at the viscosity of diesel. It it was straight WMO then yes, I can see the value in thinning it with heat but if you're blending in gas to reduce the viscosity, no heat is needed.

 

[diezelcrazee]

I'm in the same boat, I run W83 and don't see a need to heat the mix since it's already at the viscosity of diesel. It it was straight WMO then yes, I can see the value in thinning it with heat but if you're blending in gas to reduce the viscosity, no heat is needed.

Maybe I'm overkilling it, but I heat my WMO and 'fuge once, then blend 15% RUG and settle 2 - 3 days, then 'fuge the unheated blend again, then filter through a 1 micron nominal bag filter into my truck supply tank.

 

[riotwarrior]

I understand why some heat some don't, my idea here is that heating that oils over 220 upwards of 260 if possible allows the water molecules to flash off as a steam vapor, If one was to say...heat the oils, slowly pump through a nozzle such as this http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/blog/archives/1182 and flash off water then draw from the clean H2O free oil and centrifuge, wouldnt that make the most sense?

I'm new to this *****, I don't mind learning and trying different things, I can access some good food grade drums locally for clean barrels.

I am just using one restaurant for now for oil supply though there are 5 in total here locally in my lil home town. Also the idea of doing WMO is appealing but it would eff any MOOSE warranty...that's not good!

All in all I currently just settle the WVO I get, run it through a couple of filters and pour it into my tank with a lil diesel, when it's 40C here it's warm enough to use mostly WVO n little diesel!

 

[leswhitt]

Maybe I'm overkilling it, but I heat my WMO and 'fuge once, then blend 15% RUG and settle 2 - 3 days, then 'fuge the unheated blend again, then filter through a 1 micron nominal bag filter into my truck supply tank.

That sounds like a pretty good system, I'd probably go the same route if I had a band heater and the ability to drain my centrifuge barrel.

That said, how much slime/water/dirt drains out of your oil after you've already done the first centrifuge step and blended the 15% RUG and settled for a couple days? Does the RUG cause water/dirt to fall out of the oil that the centrifuge otherwise missed? Also, what kind of centrifuge are you using...I'm guessing it's a gravity type since you only 'fuge once?

 

[leswhitt]

I understand why some heat some don't, my idea here is that heating that oils over 220 upwards of 260 if possible allows the water molecules to flash off as a steam vapor, If one was to say...heat the oils, slowly pump through a nozzle such as this http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/blog/archives/1182 and flash off water then draw from the clean H2O free oil and centrifuge, wouldnt that make the most sense?

IMHO, that looks like a decent idea but the same results can be had by adding 15% RUG, waiting 1-2 days, and draining the water off the bottom. RUG is easier than heating and for the purposes of time, money, and effort, makes the most cents and sense.

In sum, there's several ways of getting water out of oil but I haven't found anything easier than adding RUG, waiting while it does the work for you, and then draining the water off the bottom.

 

[riotwarrior]

IMHO, that looks like a decent idea but the same results can be had by adding 15% RUG, waiting 1-2 days, and draining the water off the bottom. RUG is easier than heating and for the purposes of time, money, and effort, makes the most cents and sense.

In sum, there's several ways of getting water out of oil but I haven't found anything easier than adding RUG, waiting while it does the work for you, and then draining the water off the bottom.

Um...What is RUG?...hair piece? Carpet at door? *** over?

 

[leswhitt]

RUG = Regular Unleaded Gas
WMO = Waste Motor Oil (can also be ATF, Hydraulic Fluid, etc)
WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil
W85 = 85% WMO, 15% RUG (sometimes kerosene)
D2 = Pump Diesel

 

[riotwarrior]

RUG = Regular Unleaded Gas

Did not know this

WMO = Waste Motor Oil (can also be ATF, Hydraulic Fluid, etc)
WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil
W85 = 85% WMO, 15% RUG (sometimes kerosene)
D2 = Pump Diesel

Knew these...

So how does adding RUG to WVO make water seperation any better? If the water is emulsified into the WVO, what do you do add RUG shake and let settle? Help me understand further plz.

I like the idea of this though heat still sits well with me...adding RUG=adding $$$ heat is very little to no $$ if this setup works as anticipated....no mixing...just heat/pump/spray...pump/centrifuge/filter...mix into storage tank with Kereosene for use...