hc refrigerant experience?

[pybyr]

Setting aside any other factors about who _else_ may recommend it or not or why...

I'd like to know whether anyone on here has any direct experience, or knows directly about, using one of the hydrocarbon refrigerants such as:

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/310/t/alternate-ac-recharge-kit/details.asp
or
http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/HC-12a.htm

Thanks

 

[SparkandFire]

We have an air chiller/dehumidifer here that uses R290 (refrigerant grade propane) and it works really well. BUT, R290 and all other hydrocarbon refrigerants are illegal in the US.

The vapor pressure and heat capacity of HC refrigerants are actually quite favorable, but the EPA doesn't want you using them in your vehicle because of "the risk" associated with them...

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

 

[cetanefreek]

I've got a friend who regularly uses propane in a/c systems designed for R-12, says it works great.

 

[gatorman21218]

Typical government. Sure you can have 40 gallons of diesel fuel under your truck and a 100 gallon transfer tank in your bed no problem. But no you cant use 5 pounds of propane/HC in your A/C system. Thats a big fire hazard

 

[SparkandFire]

Typical government. Sure you can have 40 gallons of diesel fuel under your truck and a 100 gallon transfer tank in your bed no problem. But no you cant use 5 pounds of propane/HC in your A/C system. Thats a big fire hazard

It's been said that the law was there to protect shop workers from unknowingly releasing propane and "possibly" starting a fire... Or from mixing it in with conventional CFC or HFC refrigerants.

Of course, most mechanics work around something equally as volitle as propane... "regular unleaded"

 

[pybyr]

... and there are also the fleet cars that have been converted to run, 100% of the time, on compressed natural gas, which probably could put on quite a show in a severe situation ...

 

[gatorman21218]

But to out right ban it? Couldnt they put a sticker on the Compressor saying Flammable or something? And by their logic arent the mechanics supposed to drain and collect the refridgerent anyways? Its hard arguing with idiots. I mean these people run our country!

 

[cetanefreek]

they'd much rather have something potentially lethal in the system, which could displace all the oxygen without you knowing it and lead to suffocation in your own shop, than something stinky enough for you to notice that could cause a fireball if it started leaking while you were leaning over the engine bay lighting a cigarette with a blowtorch.

 

[icanfixall]

If you are doing this yourself its fine but not legal... This crappy state wont allow the mixing of differant gas in the systems. ike r12 and propane or any other refrigerant based stuff... I have a licence for the R12 and buy it whenver I need it on Ebay. I have 30 one pound cans of it in my shop. Our trucks need 3 cans for a full charge. Any used refrigerater compresser makes a great vacuum pump too.

 

[pybyr]

Any used refrigerater compresser makes a great vacuum pump too.

Thanks for the suggestion on the compressor; I happen to have a medial surplus vacuum compressor on hand that'll pull a good vacuum on a continuous duty basis, but what's the best way to hook the vacuum up to the existing AC fittings? Can I use the charge/ fitting for the low-side schraeder that'd come with an HC refrigerant kit?

Thanks

 

[yodermanks]

the thing about HC refrigerants that would scare me is if you had a leak and it blew into your cab. They are heavier then air and thus by the time you smelled it you would be in trouble. and i dont know if you've ever seen what that kinda stuff will do when mixed right but it makes an awfully nice boom. lol. and while it does work beautifully on trucks as old as these im not sure i would wanna take that chance. one good thing about it is it will have about a third of the head pressure in the system then r-134. and requires less energy to run.

 

[pybyr]

I'm asking these questions to learn, so appreciate all the input from all directions.

From homework I've done so far, apparently HC refrigerants are/ have been widely used in vehicles in Australia and Northern Europe for some time with no horror stories.

Can anyone shed light on the hook up/adapters for a DIY vacuum pump to draw the system out prior to adding refrigerant.

Thanks

 

[tknomaj]

HC refergerants were out lawed not only because of the pressure the system is under and the posibility of combustion . But r-12 and hc refergerants attach the ozone and have voc's. which is why r-12 was otlawed in the first place.

 

[dave186]

I heard one time that in Australia HC refrigerants are commonly used in vehicles.

 

[pybyr]

CFCs such as freon (R12) attack/ break down the naturally-preexisting ozone in the uppermost atmosphere that filters out/ reduces ultraviolet light.

VOCs (volatile organic compounds) (such as hydrocarbons of all sorts given off from human activities) as lower atmospheric air pollution can react with sunlight to form photochemical smog in the lower atmosphere, which can include ozone, and in those lower layers, the ozone doesn't serve a protective role against UV sunlight, it just ends up being a respiratory irritant, harming vegetation (smog burn), etc.

But the two are totally different phenomena, with separate causes & effects.