Getting the truck timed tomorrow...

[RLDSL]

Well, I've been running at that setting for a couple of years now it looks like, and on the same set of glow plugs the entire time. Plugs are in great shape and I tow heavy on a regular basis, but no WMO fuel has been induced. Nothing but diesel with Howes in each tank. I think you found your variable there. The WMO is going to have a different burn rate all together, and when you consider all the different things that might be found in it, the burn rate would be totally unpredictable.
It would seem wise with wmo to back off the timing and just enjoy the fact that it's free fuel.

 

[RLDSL]

By the way not all my European diesel manuals that I used to calculate the figures are for little cars ( some of those things are fairly high rpm engines and can be timed to roughly the equivilant of about 12or so deg btdc and wound up tighter than a drum ), some are for big honkin transport truck engines. Bosch makes pumps for all kinds of engines, and I have a collection of manuals and European diesel material that borders on disturbing, plus I went online to bosches german site and a few others and downloaded even more to get the best average I could

You got the simplified version, The full bore insomniac version consisted of digging through vW, VOlvo , Volvo truck, Mercedes ( passenger and commercial ) MAN ( VW commercial ) and a few others, but they all went back to the basic Bosch formula, so it made it pretty darn easy in the long run, and it also made most of this pretty darn redundant because the base formula was right there in the first couple of cars, it was a matter of matching engine designs, base compressions , turbo pressure rise and going with the most conservative timing figures.

 

[Logroller]

i'm thinking of goin up to see forcefed and timing my truck here pretty soon too , i do alot of towing with it and was wondering if the 9.7btdc is going to be best for my app ,,, any info on this will be great , thankx all

 

[WrickM]

interesting stuff. It's this kinda engineering that makes me love thinking about and working on engines.

 

[Sycostang67]

Hey RotBox, get your truck back yet?

I'm glad I'm going in tomorrow, I drove my truck to work tonight and had my butt puckered the whole time. It sounds like a powerstroke right now. It starts, runs and idles smooth but the sound is unnerving. I just kept the rpms low and drove like an 80 year old nun.

 

[ocnorb]

Rot- if you do buy a meter I could help off set the cost if you wanted to practice on another IDI or two. I seem to find myself in Lewiston every couple of months for some reason or another (Wife's family.)

 

[Rot Box]

Hey RotBox, get your truck back yet?

Not yet looks like Wednesday morning Sounds like they were busy with it most of the afternoon. I worry too much, but I just hate the unknown--guess I'll see the outcome tomorrow

Rot- if you do buy a meter I could help off set the cost if you wanted to practice on another IDI or two. I seem to find myself in Lewiston every couple of months for some reason or another (Wife's family.)

Small world! I'm thinking that I should have just bought one. I have Three friends with IDI's and I'm sure there are many more that could benefit from it. If I do end up with one I will keep you in mind

 

[Rot Box]

It would be interesting to dyno a truck set at each, run it 3 times and average the results.

I don't think it is fair to state that 9.7 is ideal when all it is based on is some math, and not actual tests. It would be nice to see a number of vehicles using that value to see what happens over time, how it affects fuel milage or what not in lue of actual dyno figures.

Point taken

I just wish there wasn't such a fine line between poor fuel mileage/power and burnt glow plugs... It really seems like only a few degrees will make or break these motors. Speaking of plugs I swear if I have one more set or have one more relay go bad I will cap off the d$%n things toss the controller and go with ether injection. More fuel-more timing-head studs and bigger turbo?

Why can't some rich guy sink a bunch of money into an IDI and see what they can come up with? A reliable 300hp would be all I would ever want, but it seems like that is almost impossible with these motors--maybe I'm wrong?

<Thinking out loud again >

 

[Diesel JD]

I'm thinking of building a motor like that.... but I'm not rich so it's going to have to wait for awhile. I think Mel's glow plugs getting chewed should have been predictable and not unexpected with the WMO as fuel. The ULSD and biodiesel have high cetane ratings and relatively lower BTU/unit compared to the old dirty diesel. We know that high cetane values seem to correspond with lower BTU and a more aggressive luminosity timing spec. Now the WMO has higher BTU/unit than diesel, even the good old stuff, and it has lower cetane. Probably the timing should actually be retarded a bit closer to 6.5 or 7 for sustained use of WMO. Also I think we determined that 0-0.5 lumy at 1400 and 9.5-10 pulse at 2000 should come out at very near the same thing. I hope to meet up with gonecrayzi and 77f250diesel soon. 77 has a ferret and I have an MT1480 with a lumy probe and we have 3 IDIs between us. We could figure something out. If we can't make it happen here, this experiment should be done at a rally. The bigger sample size the better, but from having Justin and RL work all this out I'd bet a sizeable sum that they are very close to even.

 

[Sycostang67]

I just dropped off my truck and blew up one of their buildings while I was there. Hopefully I will get it back before I have to go to work.

 

[WrickM]

yeah i had never really thought of it before, but for all it's faults luminosity seems like the only way to accurately time and engine. I mean i run straight wvo and b20 with additives here and there and i am sure the cetane ratings vary greatly and so timing by line pulse is really only a guestimate.

 

[crashnzuk]

Hey Rotbox, I'd be interested to see what the results are with your truck. Especially if you put injectors in it. My dads truck feels really lazy to me, and like you, I wonder if something is wrong since there are some on this board who say their trucks pull hard Did you by chance do any time/distance testing before taking it in, or have a favorite hill or on-ramp that you can tell if there is an increase in power? FWIW, my dad's truck is a turbo'd 6.9 with 40k miles and timing at 9.0*.
Travis..

 

[Rot Box]

Hhheeeyyyyyy??!!! my truck doesn't sound like a Power Stroke anymore!

So the answer to all the riddles was ~13.5 BTDC! Guess that's why my new Beru's are toast

Now that my timing is set at 9.7 my immediate thoughts were much more bottom end power, much more ummphhh on bottom and quicker to build boost. After driving it for awhile it doesn't seem like there is more power its just at a better spot in the RPM curve if that makes sense. It wasn't rough before, but now it just runs VERY smooth compared to before. I could only pull one small hill and the difference was noticeable. I could lug into it and gain speed where as before I would have to wrap it out to maintain speed... I will have to try a larger hill tomorrow

I was nervous at first but in all my dealings I have nothing but good to say about Terry at Moonlight. I like the fact that he is the ONLY one in the shop that does fine tuning and he said he does that so he knows that everything is done the way that he wants and he won't risk his business to anyone but himself. Gives me peace of mind anyway ;p Anyway he said he was surprised that I wanted it that far advanced. He said he has had the best luck in the 8's... Either way I'm pleased.

I can't wait to get a less restrictive intake and turn it up another flat

 

[Sycostang67]

Glad yours went good, I totally *****'d my truck. I gave him the pulse specs when he was using a luminosity meter. I get to go back.

 

[Rot Box]

Dang Good luck though!

Post up when you get it back timed right. I doubt yours was out as far as mine, but it would be really interesting to hear how it turns out