Early E4OD identification / parts

[Macrobb]

A friend of mine has a '97 PSD(Not an IDI, but bear with me...) with E4OD. Well, it's lost 2nd gear(but 2nd works manually), and I found that 2nd gear in the pan(filter totally clogged with bits), but otherwise it's working, so it needs some new clutches.

Here's the problem:
The trans is 2x4. And I found a bricknose-style speedo gear in the tailshaft housing!
Pretty sure they wouldn't have the hole for the sender and a gear behind it in a '97 E4OD case.

So, I'm thinking 89-91. But I don't have any idea really.

So, my question is: What am I going to need to fix 2nd gear?
Obviously some clutches. Intermediate clutch, right?
What parts do I get? Was there any differences between 89 and 97 in terms of this part? If so, how can I identify what I've got?

Thanks,
-Rob

 

[trackspeeder]

First, get yourself a manual. ATSG manuals are really good and they are cheap.
The manual wil show you the differences in years. 89 is a one year wonder. From there 90-91, 92-94,95-98, with 96 being another odd duck.

You will need more than clutches. You will need to break the unit down to see what you have. By looking at the case, you can't tell what you will need. You might need every hard part, or you might need a couple of pieces.

On that note you will need a rebuild kit. It will have seal, frictions, and steels. You will need other parts too. You will find out after it is inspected.

Ford used the same 2WD extension housing on all E4's. The difference being a plastic plug installed in the speedometer hole after 92. 92-98 will not have a speedo gear.

What you could have is an early tail shaft on a later case. All diesel E4's are interchangeable with a couple of parts swapped. So break it down, see what you have.

 

[BR3]

Also, it's remotely possible that someone had my issue.

96 f350 7.3, Jasper reman application specific trans, 2wd. Come out of harbor freight one day to see a puddle of tranny fluid. Upon inspection the dummy plug had fallen out, bolt and all. There's always a chance that they couldn't immediately find a new dummy plug(because no one at any form of parts place knows what I'm the world your talking about,even trans shops) and just grabbed a speed sensor instead to fill the hole.

I was lucky in that a local junkyard had one I was able to pull, but totally a possibility

 

[Macrobb]

Also, it's remotely possible that someone had my issue.

96 f350 7.3, Jasper reman application specific trans, 2wd. Come out of harbor freight one day to see a puddle of tranny fluid. Upon inspection the dummy plug had fallen out, bolt and all. There's always a chance that they couldn't immediately find a new dummy plug(because no one at any form of parts place knows what I'm the world your talking about,even trans shops) and just grabbed a speed sensor instead to fill the hole.

I was lucky in that a local junkyard had one I was able to pull, but totally a possibility

That happened as well - he grabbed a spare speed sensor from my pile of random stuff and used that. That was also where I got to see the gear inside.
As far as *who* remanned the trans, no clue. The previous owner had a dealer take care of it, 350,000 miles ago(truck has 500,000 miles on it), which was why I was surprised to find a gear inside - I would have expected the dealer to just send it off to be rebuilt using the original core.

 

[BR3]

While I do know the dealers often times just used exchange programs on their rebuilds I also am led to believe that Ford continued to put the splines on the shaft having seen them in my transmission as well as considering the e450 that had a variance of rear axles that some may not have had a vehicle speed sensor installed

I also know that while the bellhousings will bolt up and the wiring will connect the circuits in the early e4od behind the IDI the latest e4od behind the IDI and the powerstroke internal circuitry is all different, so if the transmission was functioning normally it's probably at least from an "era" correct vehicle

 

[Macrobb]

the latest e4od behind the IDI and the powerstroke internal circuitry is all different,

Oh? Are you sure? Got any info on this?
The only thing electronic inside the E4OD is the solenoid "pack", which can be swapped out easily. Assuming it *didn't* get swapped out, what are the differences between late and early E4OD in the solenoid pack?
I know the 4R100 solenoid pack is slightly different, mainly in the lockup solenoid being a variable-force vs on-off solenoid.

 

[BR3]

Not any specific links ,no. I just very distinctly recall reading that the internal resistances in the pack were different on the 87-91 models and the 92-94 models, and the tcm didn't like to communicate with the other accurately. The way I understood it, it would work mostly, but would never be feel right, and fail early, and I vaguely remember one wire in the connector pack doing something different between the two IDI models. I want to say the powerstroke model had a very different pinout code with it, though I may be wrong on those last points, it's been a while since I did my homework.

I went through it because I was going to 4wd swap that same 96 I have using a 91 e40d. My research then led me to believe it not recomendable, if possible at all

 

[Thewespaul]

You are correct, solenoid pack and mlps are different between idi and psd trans. They will not connect up however since the connectors are different.

 

[BR3]

@Thewespaul, do you know for certain about any differences between 87 and 94 ? I know for a fact the internals were changed and upgraded over the years but are there any communication issues?

 

[Thewespaul]

@Thewespaul, do you know for certain about any differences between 87 and 94 ? I know for a fact the internals were changed and upgraded over the years but are there any communication issues?

I don’t believe there were many changes there, after 94 is when they got the update and stronger parts for the psd, as well as the different electronics. With an aftermarket controller you can actually bolt a 94+ or 99.5+ trans onto an idi with a 4 stud converter and use all the newer electronics. Otherwise, I think the valve body and solenoid pack can be swapped from a 87-94 onto a 94+ to work behind an idi with the original wiring. @trackspeeder would be able to confirm for sure, I’m not an e40d expert by any means.

 

[BR3]

Mabey @trackspeeder will chime in then because I'm almost certain there were internal upgrades to a hard parts at the 91 92 split, albeit minor.

It's always nice to have someone that's actually been inside one to confirm haha

 

[trackspeeder]

There are many factory and aftermarket upgrades to the E4. To start with the easy stuff. Planetary gear sets have been upgraded to steel. Input shaft is now hardened. Sun shell is now hardened. The center support bushing has been replaced by a bearing. Late 97 saw the replacement of the cast low reverse drum. Its now stamped steel with a larger spline. This is a mixed bag. Some like cast. Some like stamped.

The E9 pump has been replaced with the F5. If you want to build a bullet proof unit you need this pump. The E9 is not worth upgrading to handle higher line pressures. Unless you're are a machinist with lots of time on your hands.

89-91 use the early solenoid pack. 92-98 use a later design solenoid pack. Yes it does use higher resistance solenoids. The IDI TCM is not happy with this set up, but it could work.

89-91 manual lever is different from the 92 and up variety. Early units used a linkage like on the C6. 92 and up are cable operated. Again they could be made to operate with some fidgeting.

95 the MLPS was made extinct it was replaced with a TRS. You can still by the early MLPS, or upgrade to the later. Just change the connector. They usually come as a kit.

The 4R100 is another animal in some cases. This has a PWM F8 pump different sensors including another range sensor (DTRS) and solenoid pack upgrades.

The list could go on.