Dana 60 wearing outside of tires

[mblaney]

No I am not setting for zero toe; the drawing was only to demonstrate how to do it. You can do any vehicle (any toe spec) and yes using Pythagorean theorem.

I believe toe is the accumulative angle between the two tires; so 1 degree toe in would mean 1/2 a degree each.

The rear axle green marks do two things:

1. Measuring the width on your front target and comparing to your rear target (say 84 inches and 82.75) would give you confidence that your set up works. Using my example numbers that means you have 1.25" run-out over a length of probably 30 - 50 feet (distance between board targets).

2. Having the green marks helps you get the front pointed in the same direction that the rear wants you to go.
​

Your toe calibration is the difference between the front target marks and the back target marks. Ignore the marks made for your rear axle when doing toe. Once your toe is set you can adjust direction by centering your toed alignment marks between the ones for your rear axle.

 

[jhenegh]

Excellent info, I’ll try to do this soon, it’s exactly what I was looking for! I don’t check in here as often as I was once able to but glad to find the same helpful community every few weeks I do

 

[franklin2]

No I am not setting for zero toe; the drawing was only to demonstrate how to do it. You can do any vehicle (any toe spec) and yes using Pythagorean theorem.

I believe toe is the accumulative angle between the two tires; so 1 degree toe in would mean 1/2 a degree each.

The rear axle green marks do two things:

1. Measuring the width on your front target and comparing to your rear target (say 84 inches and 82.75) would give you confidence that your set up works. Using my example numbers that means you have 1.25" run-out over a length of probably 30 - 50 feet (distance between board targets).

2. Having the green marks helps you get the front pointed in the same direction that the rear wants you to go.
​

Your toe calibration is the difference between the front target marks and the back target marks. Ignore the marks made for your rear axle when doing toe. Once your toe is set you can adjust direction by centering your toed alignment marks between the ones for your rear axle.

So in your experience, you cannot set the green marks up first and use them as a reference point? I think the alignment guys call it "thrust angle", or like you said, it's the direction the rearend wants to push the vehicle. If I set up the "green" marks, do they end up pretty much parallel or are they always off? I see the alignment guys spinning the tires sometimes after they install their gizmo. Do you reckon they are getting a average for the "green" rearend lines?

In my head I can see the Pythagorean triangle with both the red and green lines up front. I can't see it in my head just using the red lines. The picture really helps me see things.
https://www.oilburners.net/attachments/alignment-png.112948/
https://www.oilburners.net/attachments/alignment-png.112948/

 

[u2slow]

^ This all way more extreme than any DIY alignment I've ever done. That's SFA or IFS vehicles. Take a tape measure, or a long stick with a nail/screw in each end. Adjust till tire edges come out the same fore/aft. Then adjust the tie-rod a tidge for some toe. Measure again to confirm. Test drive. Repeat until you're happy.

I've put a couple of my DIY alignments through a shop afterwards, and they're pretty darn good.

 

[franklin2]

I actually have a old bear alignment lift that I use to work on my vehicles. But I do not have any of the electronics. I do have the legs to sit it down on that I can use to get the vehicle perfectly level front to rear and side to side. I have been wanting a homebrew way to do an alignment. The above is getting close to what I want to do. The tape measure thing like I said before just does not work. Everyone like the previous poster is guessing at their toe, if you have the ability and it's not too much trouble, why not get it right?

 

[u2slow]

People say this all the time, and it sounds so simple. But each time and on every vehicle I try it, the engine and trans are in the way. How do you get a straight measurement front and rear with the center of the truck hanging down in the way?

3 and 9 oclock aren't possible on most vehicles. You just measure as high up the tire as you can. Thats why my target is the same measurement fore/aft, then a final twist on the adjuster for a little toe.

I don't live in an area where there's drop-in alignment service at loss-leader pricing. Usually means leaving your vehicle for a couple days while they fit you in. Doesn't work for me so I need to be more resourceful. ;-)

 

[6T9burner]

I would definitely check caster bushings. While you are under there, check the rest of them. Also, a very overlooked thing, check your king pins as well. small issues come together to present you with this kind of fuckery that will have you chasing your tail.

 

[jhenegh]

Are there castor bushings in the ball joint D60s that I didn’t see when I was pressing the new ones in/out?

Leaf spring bushings are new too, but with a solid axle I don’t believe they can impact alignment unless they’re totally gone. I considered them a non-factor here.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[bdefayette]

There 2 ways to correct camber 1) install upper ball joint/king pin offset bushings. Go here starting on page 83. Not sure what type you have as you didn't indicate what year dana 60 (swap). http://www.stempf.com/pdf/2014AlignCatalogFINAL_Aug18.pdf
2) the other way is with a tapered shim (see here http://www.4x4review.com/how-to-fix-axle-camber/ ) (IIRC they are still produced for Dana 60's) that goes between the steering knuckle and and hub. Positive camber (leaning out at the top) should be 0 to 1/8*+ MAXIMUM (each side). Anymore than that and the tires will have excessive wear. Toe-in should be set at 1/8" Toe IN. Tires/front end will "naturally" toe-out about 1/8" when moving (rear wheel drive vehicles) (visa versa for front wheel drive). Caster (steering axis inclination) is the angle which affects how the car will track going down the road. It has NO bearing on tire wear. The long and the short of it is you want a MAXIMUM of 1/8*+ camber on EACH side with a MAXIMUM of 1/8" toe-in for optimal wear. "Within spec" doesn't cut it! Factory "Spec" ranges are generally anywhere from -1/4" toe out to +3/4" toe-in and camber could be anywhere from -1* to + 1.5*! The tire style/tread type has "some" bearing on longevity. Block style tread, as you have, might feather (a little). A solid tread, highway style tire, will have less of a tendency to feather. FYI, with these front end settings I now have 110,000 miles on my BFG 287/70r17's. Probably another 10k if I stretch it. All components MUST be tight for this to work including the steering linkage. These alignment numbers hold true for ALL makes/brands of solid axle 4x4's. I've been using these settings since the late '70's and have NEVER gotten less than 40k miles from a set of tires.

 

[jhenegh]

Thank you bdefayette

 

[mblaney]

So in your experience, you cannot set the green marks up first and use them as a reference point? I think the alignment guys call it "thrust angle", or like you said, it's the direction the rearend wants to push the vehicle. If I set up the "green" marks, do they end up pretty much parallel or are they always off? I see the alignment guys spinning the tires sometimes after they install their gizmo. Do you reckon they are getting a average for the "green" rearend lines?

In my head I can see the Pythagorean triangle with both the red and green lines up front. I can't see it in my head just using the red lines. The picture really helps me see things.
https://www.oilburners.net/attachments/alignment-png.112948/

Referencing off the rears (green lines) tells you where the center of the truck is (halfway between the front two marks - through the length of the truck - to between the rear two marks). Otherwise you don't really know if your front end is pointed in the same direction as where the truck should want to go. This is better than guys stretching a string under vehicle and using "the center of the Ford oval" or other questionable reference for the chassis center.

After knowing your center line, your fronts can be adjusted quickly.

^ This all way more extreme than any DIY alignment I've ever done. That's SFA or IFS vehicles. Take a tape measure, or a long stick with a nail/screw in each end. Adjust till tire edges come out the same fore/aft. Then adjust the tie-rod a tidge for some toe. Measure again to confirm. Test drive. Repeat until you're happy.

I've put a couple of my DIY alignments through a shop afterwards, and they're pretty darn good.

I won't knock this method but I found using a laser pointer easier to do alone, faster, and more accurate. We are really talking about the same thing just my virtual stick length is significantly longer so more accurate, and using a physical stick will only allow you to align the front for toe.

 

[franklin2]

Something else I have never figured out with the tape measure method measuring the front and rear of the tires. Some people like a previous poster say "1/8" toe. Would that not change with the diameter of your tires?

If the guy that is not measuring 9 oclock and 3 o clock, but measuring lower get a different toe that if he did the 1/8 up higher? Would I not get a different tow with m 35 inch tires measuring them front to rear than a guy with the original 235/85/16 tires?

I know lots of guys do it, and get by with it. But there are just too many variables for me to trust it. Tires are too expensive to be wearing them out too soon because of a lousy alignment.

But I like doing things myself also. Never have been able to confidently align my own vehicles, but I would like to try.

 

[79jasper]

I believe the answer would be no.
So if you had it set at 1/8 toe in with say a 31" inch tire, then went to a 35", and only measured the front. Yes, your measurement would be shorter, but once you measure the rear, it'll still only be 1/8 more than the front.
I'm sure there's a formula. Maybe could use the Pythagorean theorem. Lol


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[u2slow]

Measuring less that a degree of angle is difficult... so people have come up with guideline measurements like 1/8", 1/4", etc.

What you're doing is getting the tires parallel first, and then turn the adjuster probably a 1/2 turn tighter for some toe-in. It's not rocket appliances

 

[Pork_Chop50]

Are there castor bushings in the ball joint D60s that I didn’t see when I was pressing the new ones in/out?

None in the ball joint, but there are some that sit on the top axle c for the knuckle to seat into.

You must be registered for see images attach

The bushing is the round part directly under the threads. The ball joint spindle should seat into this, but age and corrosion can take away their angle. If you inspected them before install then I would lean towards your steering linkage as others have said.