cummins isl 400 and waste oil

[turfblazer]

here is something i read from another post.
i believe cause someone doesn't know something they just haven't looked hard enough . got to keep digging !

I run over a dozen trucks ALL running on WMO/diesel. Some I mix and filter the fuel before it goes in and some I dump WMO straight in the tanks. I am a mobile diesel Mechanic I run 3 service trucks for that and have been doing it for about 15yrs. I also run 5 dump trucks in the summer,3 semi's over the road, and move lots of boats/machinery. I also have a friend who also has a mobile truck service business he also runs WMO.
We both have pickups with over 400,000 miles on WMO/diesel I couldn't tell you what ANY of our injectors look like because we have NEVER pulled one never needed to. I don't use a centrifuge my friend does. I just use 2 micron Davco 382"s. Between the 2 of us we have over 4 million miles on the trucks. Not one injector has ever went bad on our trucks.
On the other hand when ULSD and LSD came out we have seen at least a 500% increase from customers in the form of breakdowns due to injector or fuel system problems. 2 of my customers are corporate fuel companies that have asked us to set their trucks up like ours are so they can run WMO as we do. I have also learned that the Fuel distributors are SUPPOSED to test and add Lubricity additive to their loads of fuel as needed. As far as I know (and have been told by their drivers) EVERY load of ULSD and LSD should have additive added yet the same skid of additive has sat in the shop for 3 yrs untouched. That leads me to believe no one is adding it as they should. It goes straight from the rack to us the customers with it KNOWN that it will hurt our engines.
Fleets have Blended WMO for the past 20 yrs I know because I have repaired the blenders. I have seen them in use at Schneider,Jevic,JB hunt,Preston,Roadway, and Yellow when doing work at their shops for them. The difference being their blenders don't filter at all they only meter a percentage into their fuel as it's put in their trucks. They don't go above 3% mix nothing like we are using.Their fuel is still green you can hardly notice any color change at all!
The 2 guys that had the cokeing problems! Do either of you have PYRO's? I understand the first guy that started this thread didn't filter good enough. Home water filters aren't meant for oil based materials either . I notice when running WMO I see lower EGT's all my trucks are always fully loaded so I can build the EGT's for long periods. Hell I have 3 one tons that weigh in at over 17,000 lbs my friend had to put air ride on his to keep the truck up his weighs 18,800 (DOT told him so ). So what I am thinking is your not building enough heat to completely burn off the residue!
Any thoughts on EGT's being the issue for these guys?
I know it LOOKS bad but as far as I've seen WMO/diesel is BETTER than diesel only.

again just other info i'm planning on going forward !!!

 

[7.3 powerstrok]

turfblazer any luck finding wmo in youre area?for the sake of debate ,some otr trucks get as low as 4 mpg 425 cat ,and some can get as much as 14 +mpg mack e-7 ..btw as for the rv i would suggest install a 50 gal aux tank w/switch over valve ,a spin-on 5 micron filter ,if you are filtering the wmo down to 2 micron before you put it in the rv you should be good ,also no need to heat the wmo at 50 +deg .

 

[turfblazer]

thanks 7.3 i agree with you right now just with pure df i run a 2 micron ( nominal) i got 15k miles on it now and i know nothing is wrong with the motor, it runs so clean i,ve only had 2 auto regenerations with the dpf.

getting wmo is begining to be a issue , i heard last wwek one of my regulars said they were approched to buy it for 50 cents a gal he turned them down.

i also agree about no heat above 50f sounds reasonable to me , you gotta figure by the time it gets up to the injector it gets pretty warm.
wish i new exactly what temp it is, might have to put a thermocouple in or around the fuel line and get a idea.

i also really like the last post i put here i found about the egt's i always figured that was a big issue on cokeing. this whole wmo thing is really about getting everything just right and not half to worry,
seems like many have experimanted and didn't pursure the reason for failure so they just give up or just blame it on something else besides there own neglect becoming the failure.

drive it like ya stole it and i'll bet no cokeing ever !?!?

 

[7.3 powerstrok]

im no expert however coking formation only takes place when overheated oil contiues to burn on a hot surface until all accelarents are burned and all thats remains is crispafied um coking .you may find this on some turbos if the engine is not idled before shutdown ,how bout some pics of the rv diesel ?

 

[turfblazer]

sorry forgot to mention to tonkadoctor
rig is 42 foot long has a tag axle 6 speed allision auto and weigh's 33,000 dry. and is not very areodymanic at all with 3 ac's, motion sat dome, tv antenna on the roof and a almost flat front end with the biggest one piece glass windshield i,ve ever seen pushing the wind.

if my daughter drives it she'll get about 9mpg

 

[turfblazer]

i gotta think cokeing will come from any unburned fuel, dirty air, bad blowby, just lugging your motor could produce a un clean burn, in a diesel too hot is a melted piston.

 

[7.3 powerstrok]

nice rv i see you also have some type of truck in tow .i dont have a pyro gauge on my truck but i can say my mpg increased from 15 to 16+running wmo .also noticeable increase in power .

 

[tonkadoctor]

sorry forgot to mention to tonkadoctor
rig is 42 foot long has a tag axle 6 speed allision auto and weigh's 33,000 dry. and is not very areodymanic at all with 3 ac's, motion sat dome, tv antenna on the roof and a almost flat front end with the biggest one piece glass windshield i,ve ever seen pushing the wind.

if my daughter drives it she'll get about 9mpg

You don't need to mention anything to me. I've been delivering RVs from the factory to dealerships for the last 3 years. I know what these diesel pushers are capable of and it's a whole lot better than the 7 mpg you are getting. Your daughters 9 confirms your 7 is largly due to a problem with your right foot.

I honestly don't give a rip what you burn for fuel in that thing. There's nothing wrong with trying to save a $. I just want you to look into what it costs to fix it if you screw it up.

I know what it costs to work on these new big engines, I know how much it costs to tow one of these RVs and if you are still under warranty, be prepared to pay as the first thing they will do when they discover the WMO while working on the fuel system is void your warranty. The second thing they will do is have Bubba Bigmember the service writer bend you over the service desk and he will do it with a smile and he won't use vaseline.

Towing that 42' pusher ain't going to be the $50 you'll pay some local to tow your little pickup 2 blocks. You'll pay through the nose for someone to bring out his shiney chromed up half million dollar big rig wrecker with a wheel lift capable of moving that thing.

Average shop labor rate for engine work on that Cummins $125 per hour

Injectors $400-$600 EACH not installed

Set of 6 injectors $3000+ installed

New DPF, I have seen bills as high as $15,000 if it's not rebuildable.

Rebuild one of these engines $10 - $15k with labor

New engine $40,000

Jar of Vaseline to ease the pain...... Priceless.


Do whatever you want to do.
Happy Camping.

 

[turfblazer]

sorry i got your ******* in a bind wasn't meant to do that,

been workin on diesels since i was 16, been towing vehicles sice i was 16, been driveing big rigs since i was 16.
and as you i served my country ( ex navy)
i know and realize all the down falls with expermitting other fuels.
hopefully you should be able to see i'am trying to cercomvent any issues by looking at what is the correct way to do it and get that info from experienced people that have done so not to get opinions from people that haven't.
please understand your takeing your opinions and your results way to seriously compared to what the main question and result meant from this topic.

sticking to facts going forward and getting a result that works is my only intention . debateing the what if's is not

 

[tonkadoctor]

My ******* fit just right, just a little snug up front.

You are the one who asked for opinions, I gave you mine. I won't sugar coat nothing for nobody. Take what you need and leave the rest. I won't and didn't tell you how to run WVO, just ask you to consider the cost of messing up and you seem to want to argue with what I say by quoting other peoples 3rd party hearsay like it's gospel.

My strong opinions are based on facts that I have personally accomplished. What I have personally accomplished I take seriously. What I take seriously I will not change my opinion on, no matter who doesn't like it. I built my own truck with my own 2 hands to do specalized work.

I was a Hull Tech in the Navy and Navy reserves. I worked in the shipfitting shops on submarine and destroyer tenders.

I was a Petroleum lab Tech in the Army. I was testing fuel, filtration systems and mixing additives for aviation grade fuel. The Defense Energy Support Command flew in to visit my defuel site, additive injection station and Laboratory several times and has written field doctrine on what I accomplished in Afghanistan.

In 3 tours of combat spanning 2 years of my life in some of the roughest areas we have had boots on the ground I never lost a soldier under my command. Several insurgents that met the business end of my squads M4 Carbines, M249 SAW and Ma Duece can't say that.

If I didn't take my job seriously and do it right, the wrong people died. If I give you bad advise it could cost you thousands$$$$$$$



P.S.

Jevic and Preston went out of business years ago. Roadway was bought out by Yellow. They must have been saving a lot mixing their waste oil in their fuel. These are all LTL freight hauling companies. I don't know much about Jevic other than they hauled LTL freight, but the rest were doing mostly 1 day trips terminal to terminal and running local routes and rarely purchase on the road.

JB Hunt, Schenider and Swift are huge trucking companies that have their own fuel islands at major terminals, otherwise they fill up at truckstops just like everyone else when they are not routed through a terminal.


14mpg OTR Mack trucks. Mabey bobtail otherwise it must be one of the best kept secrets in the trucking industry because hardly anyone drives a Mack OTR. In fact I traded my Pedigree Mack for a Ford LTL9000 with a 400 CAT, 13 over Fuller and SQ100 Rockwells w/ 3.73 gears. If I knew my Mack was doing that well I'd have never done that and dang sure wouldn't have bought my Freightliner Century with a 445 CAT, 13 double over and 3.42 Eaton rears.


Like I said earlier, I don't care what you burn in that thing but can you do me a huge favor when you start burning WMO in that thing. Let me know what beach you are driving on so I'm not around when that 33,000 lb beast comes rolling by. I don't want to smell the stench of burning WMO on my holiday.


Happy Camping. Look forward to your reply.

 

[7.3 powerstrok]

turfblazer if you have a catilst converter on that rv remove it dont need it any way it before burning wmo ,,also probably worth a few bucks for scrap ..should be enough for a nice on board tank and valve for the wmo .or hang on to it if you need it at inspection time

 

[7.3 powerstrok]

pioneer

looks like no other has a 400 cummings rv running on wmo ?so looks like you have to be the pioneer and yes the others will follow but some times the fewer that know the better ....or just tell them you have speical made engine parts you should have all the facts ,now you just need to do it ......this might help ...to do list ...get 55 gal wmo let it settle for at least a day or 2 ......2....add 8 gals diesel or kero methanol ,gasoline ....whatever mix works for you ....3...filter down to 2-5-10 micron again youre choice .....4...put in 5 gal run fuel line to rv and start after you burn 5 -gals sitting in the driveway ..it should give you the conifindece to get another 5 gals and drive the block a few times ..

 

[tonkadoctor]

turfblazer if you have a catilst converter on that rv remove it dont need it any way it before burning wmo ,,also probably worth a few bucks for scrap ..should be enough for a nice on board tank and valve for the wmo .or hang on to it if you need it at inspection time

He has worse than a catylitic converter.

His RV is a 2008 model which means his engine will is EPA 07 emmissions. His Cummins ISL 400 has a Diesel Particulate Filter. He can't just yank it off and toss it without having his ECM reprogrammed which is a lot more expensive on these big engines than it is on a pickup. Tuners or custon tunes for engines like this cost roughly 4 - 5 times as much as a good tuner for a Powerstroke, Cummins 5.9 or Duramax.

If the ECM on these new engines detect a problem with the DPF they will first warn you, then go into a limp mode and eventually shut themselves down when you ignore that.

He would likely have to take it in to a place like Pittsburg Power to have the mods done for this particular engine.



He also may have another problem to look into. New York is one of those left leaning states with some really far left politicians that have been harping on emmissions like Komifornia does, they have a real ****** for a congressman too.

He may have to have annual emmissions testing done on that rig in which case he isn't going to be able to toss that DPF and will at least have to have everything back to normal to pass a smog test before yanking it back off to enjoy cheap fuel again. He may also need to get a spare ECM, one that is reprogrammed so he can swap on the stock one when it's time for testing.

He'll definatly be a pioneer going this route with that rig and either quite ballsy or nuckin futz too. He'll easily spend more just to "upgrade" this rig to burn WMO than most spend on the older diesel vehicles and upgrade parts combined to do this.

I'm thinking he could easily spend about $4 - $5k to upgrade. This is a lot different animal than an old pickup or mercedes.

Custom made DPF delete off road pipes $500 - $1k
Custom tuned ECM $2-$3k
Custom WMO tank to fit that rig, pump, heater, plumbing and install $1k....

He'll likely have to get a tank that fits into a storage compartment, most of the underbelly of these rigs that isn't alread occupied by the engine, trans and suspension is used up by 3 to 4 water and waste tanks, plumbing, wiring, genset, stairs and hydraulics.

 

[turfblazer]

now were talking !!! there are so many issues to contend with.
don't think the dpf will be a issue as far as removeing it it will stay where it is but will have a y fitting to a straight pipe. there is no emmissions in ny as of today for these units they are straight safety stickers. i do like the second ecm idea will have to do some thinking on that .
someone told me something ( another forum) the dpf can be somewhat fooled by a resistor but that seems kind of far fetched simply because the sensor values will always be changing unless the value is only acting like a min -max ??? or a on off. i gotta figure when the backpressure sensor or the max timer ( internal) says do a regen the thermocouple for the egt will show the increase in egt temp the ecm will say ok were working and all goes well for the allotted time . if it doesn't sense the temp increase it will go into limp mode but again i'm not sure yet.
but maybe that could be circumvented by the y pipe and the proper re placement of the sensors.

cummins has tuner programs that i guess only go to actual registered techs
their are different levels of programing yes i think you can get the top of the line for about 3k but its no good unless to can be registered with cummins and get hooked up online with their system and even then its not gonna let you reright certain calbrations.

right now i have 3 engines running on wmo between 30 to 50%
1 old loader 5 yard 1964? 6cyl international and it loves it
1 track hoe about a 50hp yanmar it has a light smoke to it but all seems fine.
1 30k cummins gene but not tested much so far.
all are stock no mods at all .
again guys all is testing with older equiptment 1st simply because its been done for a long time and been proven to work if done right and not get greedy.

the rv is the future and will only be done if and when all questions or concerns are addressed in the proper way.
might just sell the clean wmo to others with off road eq and use the bucks to put the crappy ulsd in the rv with 1 quart of 2 stroke per 100 gal df

 

[tonkadoctor]

A lot of truckers that are running custom tunes in their trucks are having them put on a second ecm. They swap the stock ecm back on the truck when it has to go into the shop for engine work. You might be able to keep some costs down here by keeping your eyes open on Ebay for a good used one to have the tune put on.

I can't help you on how to circumvent the DPF properly. It can be done, I'm not up to speed on it. Just know they can be gawd awful expensive to repair or replace.

Give Pittsburg Power a call, they should be able to give you the straight scoop on the DPF and custom tunes. They do a lot more than what their web site shows.



There are owner operators out there that have gotten so sick of the low fuel milage, problems and expense of all this new emmissions equipment that they are having Freightliner Columbia glider kits custom built for maximum fuel economy with pre egr Detroit 60 series, 9 - 10 speed transmissions, single drive axle with a tag axle and super single rear tires. Enough are being built like that that a couple companies have started producing them.


P.S. I still think you're nutz but that's OK...... You don't have to worry if I'm nutz........ Uncle Sam certified that I'm