Coolant .... the mystery continues

[Kagey Robin]

The truck is a 1994 crew cab stock turbo, the engine is a 6.9 upgrade getting ready to be installed this weekend (hopefully)

The reason I am posting is yesterday I was researching coolants I read a number of articles and comment on this board and several others and finding a single standard opinion on any coolant (especially brand) was an effort in futility. For every ten posts I read I would get 13 opinions many contrary to each other. Use all green, never green only pink, elcs, never elcs, dca's no sca's, extra sca's NEVER PINK, only Cat red .... ect, ect, ect. By the end I was so confused I could not come to any conclusions. On any other car I would have just asked the parts store guy, and been fine with his recommendation, but on our trucks cavitation is a real and frequently unknown problem, less likely on the 6.9 but still a real issue.

I had heard a few people talk about EVANS coolant, and there were two prevailing opinions 1) it is too expensive, what we have works, why change ...ect 2) People who have used the product and love it, cheap insurance, Last coolant you will ever buy ... ect. As I read, I became convinced that is the coolant for me.

First off is the build. This entire truck was chosen for durability. 6.9 .. 200k easy ... Manual tranny ... 200k easy... Every part I bought was the highest quality I could find, and the longest lasting. The primary goal was durability, and the Evans fills the bill. Money is a concern, but not a primary factor when durability is at stake.

Second ... cavitation is a concern, Evans removes that from the table, it also removes the corrosion element, the lubrication of the water pump, and replacement of my newly purchased Aluminium radiator in 5 years. It not only removes it it takes it off the table for good, if their claims are to be believed. Meaning (barring a catastrophic failure of a hose or radiator) this could be the last time I have to change coolant.

Third ... maintenance, there is minimal ... check the water content of the coolant every 12 mos. inspect components

Fourth .. This can cause you truck to run a little hotter. That is good, Heat in a diesel is not a bad thing, over heating is. The main reason we worry about our engines when they get over 212 degrees is the water will boil out of the block and burn the engine down. This isn't an issue with Evans because it doesn't boil until 375 degrees, it seems like an extra level of protection, and any time I can increase the margin for error that is a good thing. Also the slight increase in temperature is not going to damage the engine, while the oil could break down quicker, I am very religious on changing the oil every 3000 mile which is far below the recommended change.

Fifth .. No pressure in the cooling system. Well no pressure is a bit of a stretch there may be a few pounds caused by expansion, but pressure is completely unnecessary because the boiling point of the fluid is so high. Imagine how long hoses could last if there is only a few pounds of pressure in stead of 10 or more pounds of pressure.

Sixth ... The engine has no fluid in it, and is getting ready to be put in. There is no conversion process, just install and fill with Evans instead of other coolants. Much simpler than to converting later.

I am posting this to hear opinions on my thinking, and to hear from those that have tried this coolant. Am I overly optimistic? unrealistic expectations? faulty logic? uninformed? Ill take all comers, Just for info I am plumbing in a coolant filter with this system, which seems logical if you are planning on running any fluid for an extended period that filtration is a minimal requirement. Have at it!

 

[riotwarrior]

Your heater core has coolant either remove and flush and drain n dry...or....

Yes evans is the hot ticket item and I for 1 would love to use it...that being said in canuckistan pesos its waaaay to $$pendy for me lol.

 

[SirRea63l]

The Evans is good stuff. My previous toy was a 2001 E38 BMW and they are notorious for blowing up the cooling system. Those that switched to the Evans have several years of use and no reported failures. I replaced the entire cooling system in that car before I sold it, twice prior I had to replace the expansion tank from the pressure. I was going to run the Evans until I decided to sell it.

Yes it is expensive up front but that cost is mitigated with time and as long as nothing happens to cause the loss of the Evans coolant it is worth it. It is on my long list of things to do to my 94 after many other things are done first.

 

[los182]

I'm in a similar predicament as you......... How much more expensive is this coolant and who carries it?

 

[Kagey Robin]

***los182***
That is one of the issues ... it is expensive 45$ a gallon X 8 .... and no one local carries it. I had to order it online. I will get a few extra gallons to sit on the shelf for repairs


** Riotwarrior**
Thanks for the Heater core suggestion, I thought of that, but the truck has been sitting for a few weeks without any engine, I was going to blow that out, and figured that would be enough. 3% of 8 gallons is 1.95 pints I doubt that it will have that much water in there. Good info though!

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Does Evans coolant not expand when it warms up? No pressure in any cooling system is caused by boiling. It's caused by the expansion of water and glycol as they heat up in a closed system. The same as it contracts and draws coolant from the overflow bottle when it cools on our trucks

The high pH issues Ive brought up against aluminum will only cause corrosion to the radiator, oil cooler and heater core. A good corrosion inhibitor package is the most important part. I don't even remember what Evans coolant is I'll try to find an sds to see what it is but in industrial applications there aren't many options for heat transfer fluids.

A brine solution which will destroy your engine in a few days

An alcohol solution which will evaporate quickly and be a fire risk

A 25% sodium hydroxide solution which will destroy your aluminum and every gasket in a few hours

Or ethylene or propylene glycol. That's all I typically see. If it weren't for freezing you'd be best off running straight water and the correct corrosion inhibitors. It transfers heat better and pumps easier through the system.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

It's just propylene and ethylene glycol mixed together. Nothing special at all. The only difference between running straight glycol and this would be it contains half the corrosion inhibitors as 4,000ppm of sodium nitrite will start attacking solder, copper and aluminum. Maybe their coolant also contains sodium molybdate and tolytriazole. That'd be the only benefit I see of running it. Though to treat 12 gallons would cost me about $0.90

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

This is what I got for an sds

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[SirRea63l]

IIRC the pressure relief caps are something like 3-4 psi, so yes it does pressurize but not significantly. I am sure on their site they give the recommended cap for pressure. I didn't look, just going off memory, and my memory is failing at times.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

IDI's are 13psi. When you used an overflow tank you have no air in the system coolant expands, doesnt compress and your entire sytem is kept at 13psi as it vents excess from expansion to the overflow tank. When you run an expansion tank system like the powerstroke and all new cars/trucks you have essentially an expansion tank with air, the air compresses as the glycol expands and your system pressure is generally much lower, like 5-7psi until you start exceeding the boiling point of the coolant. It's just like the bladder tank on your house. You also prevent any oxygen from coming into contact with the coolant this way and keep your "SCAs" almost indefinitely. They only react with the surface of metal - a finite volume will be used (they include 100 times more than is needed for that) and a finite volume of oxygen will be dissolved in that system which will react with a small portion of the SCAs. There is more than enoguh in coolant to handle both. In an IDI open overflow tank the tank is constanatly overrflowing, ,mixing with oxygen, and drawing back into the cooling system fresh oxygen when it cools. It's a horrible design to prevent oxygen pitting/cavitation.

Oxygen pitting is the number one cause of carbon steel boiler tube failures. You cylinder liners arent any more than a steel tube filled with heat the same as a boiler. The failure always to seem to occur on the liner where the piston is pushing sideward on, i suspect from increased friction. Every 18 degress you increase water temperture, the corrosion rate increases by 50%. I've read the studies on it being from a bubble being created from the shockwave and high cylinder pressures but wouldnt that be causing failures at the top of the liner and not the middle of it? That's where i'd think the pressure and "bubble" would be forming as that's where there is the highest cylinder pressure. In any case sodium nitrite and a pH of over 10 will start forming magnetite on that cylinder liner to protect it so caviation shouldnt be an issue.

 

[Kagey Robin]

Sorry Shawn, you are way over my head, I cannot respond with anything that speculates as to the composition or the effects of the composition, ( Honestly I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing) I can respond to their claims and the claims of those that have run the stuff. Nearly everyone that runs it seems to like it ... confimation bias? ... maybe? or it is good?, I won't know until I try it. Nearly everyone that has not run it seems to label it as snake oil or some new fangled fad that isn't worth trying. There are a few in the middle that are skeptical but willing to give it a try and see if the claims are accurate. I am in that category.

I wouldn't argue that the current method is inferior. Without argument water with additives is the king when it comes to heat transfer. Rather, I would argue, that this method suits my need (real or imagined) better (if the claims are correct), as water would freeze solid at the first opportunity, and every consecutive opportunity, and the current method of cooling requires significant maintenance to maintain additives to protect the engine and cooling components. While the time can be made available to do said maintenance if there is a way to simplify my life, and add a level of protection to the expensive components in my new engine, I think it may be worth a try from my perspective. Honestly I like the whole idea of a closed system that does not need significant maintenance and lasts the life of the vehicle, even if it may be a pipe dream. The coolant filter and a few years should be able to tell the tale as to how effective this system is.

The web site says you do not need to change the cap, but the system doesn't build pressure. it is suggested that a hot radiator makes the sound of a soda can opening when the cap is removed (for pressure reference). It is also suggested that with this system you do not need an expansion tank, but I have not read much on that yet.

 

[SirRea63l]

It does build a slight pressure, this is where it helped the most with the aluminum BMW V8. The stock system used a plastic overflow bottle that failed from the pressure of water and coolant, the Evans builds very little pressure because there is no water so the system doesn't fail as easily. Materials will expand from the heat and that is where the slight pressure is coming from, the soda can reference.

I have no reason to doubt the product, easily a dozen people I know used it with complete success in a vehicle that was plagued with cooling issues.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Thats very interesting to me that it doesnt build pressure. I was merely going by their SDS which lists the main component as ethylene glycol at 66-70% followed by propylene. Which is not some special magical heat transfer fluid, its the same thing that all coolant is. It seems they are reccomending close to straight up glycol - which you cants do currently because they are designed to be mixed. I am not sure how they are keeping it from expanding but that's very intersting to me. Pulling it from a chart on google ethlyene glycol's is 0.00032 per degree F, so as i understand that taking it from 0F to 200F (just easy numbers here) that'd be a 6.4% expansion in a 12 gallon cooling system .768 gallons of expansion or 98 ounces as i understand it.

Expansion asside they could have excellent "SCAs", corrosion inhibitor package, that aid in protecting all metals. I dont know of any additives to prevent pressure build up though.

Who here has an IDI and runs Evans and is your IDI radiator hose hard when its up to temp? I may have to buy a gallon of this stuff to test it.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

It does build a slight pressure, this is where it helped the most with the aluminum BMW V8. The stock system used a plastic overflow bottle that failed from the pressure of water and coolant, the Evans builds very little pressure because there is no water so the system doesn't fail as easily. Materials will expand from the heat and that is where the slight pressure is coming from, the soda can reference.

I have no reason to doubt the product, easily a dozen people I know used it with complete success in a vehicle that was plagued with cooling issues.

That's even more interesting as glycol usually expands 3 times more than water. I wonder what the stuff really is. I may have to buy it and test its expanson in a beaker when heating it vs other coolant.

 

[SirRea63l]

Shawn I can't answer to what the actual expansion rate is, but everyone I know that used it reported only a slight pressure build and changed their radiator cap to a very low pressure one. The only negative ever reported was the price and having to keep extra in the car in case of a hose rupture or other unplanned occurance. If you have trouble in the road, you cannot add water to replace large amounts of lost Evans.