Another good reason to stay out of Calif.

[Cubey]

It's amazing to me how many electric car related patents came out in the late 1800's and early 1900's and how much technology the minds of these inventors created on paper, and just couldn't implement it due to lack of (electrical)energy storage. I don't have a link or anything but there are hundreds of cool patents, I remember seeing some in high school and being blown away...knowing the way history unfolded and having graduated in 2001, electric cars were not a thing yet(again). Very cool stuff!

This was true as far as their portrayal by the oil industry and in minds of consumers.

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[IDIBRONCO]

Early on in history, electric cars were very popular in cities because they were cleaner, less maintenance, quieter (less likely to scare horses), and electric was easier to access than gasoline. You could park at home and charge it overnight, no need to make a special trip for fuel. And no risk of breaking your fingers or arm trying to literally crank it. The battery tech just wasn't there once gas stations populated enough that it was a better value to buy something like a Model T and be able to go much further.

Absolutely right.

absolutely stay out of the big cities.

I try to do that wherever I go. I only go to those if I'm being paid to.

It's amazing to me how many electric car related patents came out in the late 1800's and early 1900's and how much technology the minds of these inventors created on paper, and just couldn't implement it due to lack of (electrical)energy storage. I don't have a link or anything but there are hundreds of cool patents,

It's sad to see how many people don't know this. It should be popular knowledge, but it isn't.

 

[DaveBen]

Wow! A "conversation" of a very political subject that is very civil and informative! I completely agree with most of what has been said. Calif is a GREAT state if you stay away from the big cities. This is why I moved to Mendocino County. It is very rural and pretty with all of the Redwood trees and such. I won't get into the pot industry as I am not a user, but a fan of it.

 

[YJMike92]

Banning vehicles that left the factory meeting pollution specifications at the time they left the factory is what I'm against. If there was a class action lawsuit I think it could win. If the extremists prevail a ban on all fossil fuel vehicles is coming.

 

[ROCK HARVEY]

Do you guys remember when Edmund’s did some testing a couple years ago and found that you emit more emissions running a leaf blower for 1/2 hour than you would driving a ford raptor all the way from Texas to Alaska? That’s when it really hit me how clean cars are nowadays. I don’t think there is much more that can be done to reduce automotive emissions short of a transition to hydrogen.

 

[Old Goat]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I live in the Northern California foothills, gold country. It’s a totally different world here than what you see in Sacramento/Bay Area/SoCal. The demographics of the area are consistent, the crime is lower, the people are friendlier and more neighborly, the country is phenomenally beautiful, and in some ways I will go out on a limb and say they are harder workin and smarter than what you would find generally in rural areas of other states. You have to grind to make it in this state, between the taxes, gas/grocery prices and mind numbing regulation. It takes grit and drive. With that said, you have a special breed of people who are used to the state government actively making it harder and harder for them to exist and live, normally atleast, and yet they continue to do so. Id compare it to a guerrilla citizenry that isn’t actively pursuing warfare. Talk all the mess one will about California, when things actually do get ugly and they will, the hillbillies and rednecks will come out of the woods of the rural parts of California and speak for themselves.

Well this like the Frog in the pot of water.
Throw him in a pot of hot water he will jump out.
Put him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat, you will cook him.

I can say bad things about Ca., as I lived there from 1944 - 2014. San Jose till I went in the Navy, then 48 years in Santa Cruz.
Ca., the Golden State, is very tarnished.


Goat

 

[Bart F-350]

Well, never been in california, but what I've seen from it (and actually the whole of USA and Canada) you have a fabulous nature and landscapes!

And Extremists, in whatever fields are NEVER ok.

All those improvements and sacrifices are meaningless now though ... it's never going to be clean enough for extremists. Smog has been effectively reduced. The battle is over, the war is won... except it's not. Until common sense returns to every state citizens are gradually becoming subjects.

Nah!, there is only one solution for it, for every person you dig a hole, big as a beercase, put the persons feet in there, and fill it with concrete, that's the only way to go if you would effectively stop pollution. nobody should use any transportation anymore! But then the whole of our society would grind to a halt, and seeing that for example Freightliner completely stopped their EV research and production, and it seems that it wouldn't be the onlyone, I think that bigmoney doesn't see a future anymore in EV, but something else?
and for sure is that here in Europe the grid isn't enough developed to supply electricity to every consumer to charge their EV.

 

[rreegg]

Do you guys remember when Edmund’s did some testing a couple years ago and found that you emit more emissions running a leaf blower for 1/2 hour than you would driving a ford raptor all the way from Texas to Alaska? That’s when it really hit me how clean cars are nowadays. I don’t think there is much more that can be done to reduce automotive emissions short of a transition to hydrogen.

Lmao didn’t Cali ban 2 stroke engines and mandate all leaf blowers be electric?

 

[Bart F-350]

I saw a very interesting way for future combustion engines; Hydrogen fueled. Think about it. The only "pollutants" they would produce are CO2 and water. CO2 is a plant food and they turn it into O2 (Oxygen). No other bad gases or solids to destroy our planet and our health. VW is looking into this as we speak. The Internal Combustion engine is NOT dead!

In that future, I guess that we all need to go out and buy "wellies", or high rubber boots (how do you call them in the USA?)
on the other hand, If drinking water becomes rare, and more and more expensive, why could Hydrogen not being made from sea water? then you make a bucket at your exhaust and you have drinkwater in the evening when you come home from work?

 

[Cubey]

In that future, I guess that we all need to go out and buy "wellies", or high rubber boots (how do you call them in the USA?)
on the other hand, If drinking water becomes rare, and more and more expensive, why could Hydrogen not being made from sea water? then you make a bucket at your exhaust and you have drinkwater in the evening when you come home from work?

There is no actual water shortages, technically speaking.

The "problem" is that under the existing free for all capitalist system, it's not "profitable" to build, operate, and maintain desalinization plants. So they don't. The rich get all the water they want and everyone else gets shortages.

If you take away the sole motivating force of never ending profits under the capitalist system use the profits to build infrastructure to benefit everyone without regards to quarterly earnings, and you'll have a much better society.

To put it another way, instead of some billionaire buying a 5th mega yacht, the money could be used instead for a desalinization plant to benefit millions.

You might say "what about people inland"? Pipelines a thousand mile long are built for oil movement ... we could do it for water too.

It's because there's no profit to be gained from it, that's why.

The only reason rest areas are allowed to still exist in the United States is because the maintenance has been outsourced (which actually costs the government more) to private companies who make a profit on the maintenance at tax payer expense.

 

[Greenie]

True capitalism encourages innovation, competition, lower prices, better products. Capitalism fails miserably pushing products that people don't want to buy.

 

[Clb]

We can see across the street in l.a. now due to the investment in smog, but industrial pollution is still far behind the common car.
We never saw smog here when I was a kid.
They taxed us but not the ag (wine industry ) guys.
Some days I see smog and wonder why...
Carry on.

 

[Cubey]

True capitalism encourages innovation, competition, lower prices, better products. Capitalism fails miserably pushing products that people don't want to buy.

True capitalism is what you see right now. The sole motivating force is profit. Nothing else. Not the well being of the workers. Not environmental damage. Profit. Nothing else.

In just under 6 minutes, he laid that out as well as inflation and a spiraling economy, 50 years ago:

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[ISPKI]

Do you guys remember when Edmund’s did some testing a couple years ago and found that you emit more emissions running a leaf blower for 1/2 hour than you would driving a ford raptor all the way from Texas to Alaska? That’s when it really hit me how clean cars are nowadays. I don’t think there is much more that can be done to reduce automotive emissions short of a transition to hydrogen.

Hydrogen has an enormous amount of drawbacks and hurdles. Specifically transportation and storage. It is the smallest molecule and keeping it sealed is a significant challenge. I use Helium mass spectrometers at work constantly and keeping helium contained is extremely difficult, hydrogen is even more so. This isnt a huge issue with helium since its an inert gas but hydrogen is easily ignited so the emphasis to keep it completely contained is much more significant.

Hydrogen combustion efficiency is also terrible with current technology, when compared to gas/diesel (both of which are also terrible). Basically, it takes alot of hydrogen to get anywhere near the same amount of work done when compared to traditional fuels or electricity.

Toyota produces a hydrogen ICE powered vehicle and has been producing it for years now. Recently, the only major fuel provider of hydrogen closed down 90% of their fueling stations, mostly existing in CA, due to lack of demand. Toyota now sells their brand new hydrogen powered vehicles for ~8,000-10,000$ brand new due to the fact that you cant fuel them up anywhere.

Hydrogen has the added benefit that it is super easy to produce. I have built my own electrolysis reactors and they work great, the primary issue is the accelerated oxidation of the anode and cathode plates. My earliest models used solid copper plates. Those survived for maybe half a day in a salt catalysed water solution. Tried stainless steel which sacrifices ~80% electrical efficiency but last many times longer. I then tried silver (INOX-11 alloy) which performed incredibly well but is many times more expensive. I think, ideally the plates would be made of perforated iridium but then cost would skyrocket but should last about as long as is possible and with excellent efficiency. Other problem is that the majority of known iridium is coming out of Russia's extreme depth mining projects, while the US has huge amounts of silver that really doesnt get used for much.

My concept had been, rather than storing the hydrogen in a tank, the reactor could exist at each fueling station in a dormant state, holding water which is easy to transport and store. Solar/wind generation could keep a battery storage system topped off. When a vehicle requests to fuel up, the reactor could trip on, start generating hydrogen and oxygen gas, funnel that into a pressure tank and pipe it directly into your vehicle. Then the only storage issue of compress hydrogen/oxygen is in the vehicle. As with most of these developments, someone needs to pump massive amounts of $$$ into it to make it a reality. Not just the private sector, but the Feds need to back it as well and so far, the feds primarily support fossil fuel first, EV second, and forget about anything after that.

 

[ROCK HARVEY]

My concept had been, rather than storing the hydrogen in a tank, the reactor could exist at each fueling station in a dormant state, holding water which is easy to transport and store.

This is a REALLY smart idea!