94 f250 idi turbo no boost no power

[thatfordguy]

I have a 94 f250 idi factory turbo with a Garrett .70. I got it with a cavitated motor. I drove it about 10 miles to my house. I replaced the motor with a 90 7.3 n/a, had my turbo heads machined with new valve spring. Put all my turbo parts on the 90 shortblock. Now the truck runs but it is completely gutless. It can't even get out of it's own way. I am not getting any boost. 3rd gear wot I can get it up to 3lbs. No whistle. It blows a lot of black smoke all the time unless I'm just cruising on flat ground. I don't know what the last guy had going on with the pump. I know the boost gauge works. I've got the intake hat tight with the rubber gasket. O-ring in the hat to the turbo is in good condition. I believe the up pipe is all tight. I can't see any soot at the connections. It has an aftermarket downpipe, not the factory pancake pipe. I don't have the intake on it while I'm messing with it.
I tried timing the pump but I don't have a timing meter. I was told 4 dime widths was about 8deg so (looking from the front of the truck) I turned the pump about that far counter clockwise. I have tried running it with the pump turned in all directions and all positions nd it seems like no matter where I turn the pump the truck runs the exact same. Crappy

Any advice? I'm new to diesels so you'll have to talk in newbie or gasser talk.

 

[Prototypemech]

Just like a gas vehicle, without a timing tool, you're just guessing. A few degrees either direction makes a big difference. Dont trust any marks you find on the timing cover; theyre just for reference. Did you swap over the IP pump from the bad engine to the good engine? IP pumps are calibrated differently and you want the turbo IP pump on the new engine. Also, the injectors are slightly different between turbo and non-turbo models.
Check all your exhaust connections and make sure there is no leaks around the joints. A small exhaust leak will kill your boost. Same with intake leaks.
good luck.

 

[thatfordguy]

Just like a gas vehicle, without a timing tool, you're just guessing. A few degrees either direction makes a big difference. Dont trust any marks you find on the timing cover; theyre just for reference. Did you swap over the IP pump from the bad engine to the good engine? IP pumps are calibrated differently and you want the turbo IP pump on the new engine. Also, the injectors are slightly different between turbo and non-turbo models.
Check all your exhaust connections and make sure there is no leaks around the joints. A small exhaust leak will kill your boost. Same with intake leaks.
good luck.

I used turbo everything except the short block and a couple glow plugs. Turbo injectors, pump etc.all gaskets are new and I followed the torque processes exactly. I will try loosening up the exhaust pipes and retightening them but that's my last chance that I know of. And on the pump and housing there are what appear to be factory scribe lines. I lined those up. And I doesn't matter if I run the engine on those lines, turned left a little or a lot turned right a little or a lot the engine always runs the exact same. Its almost like I'm turning the pump but it's not changing anything. I'm gonna try taking it to the community college here tomorrow and see if the diesel department wants to play with it

 

[icanfixall]

Tell us about the replacement engine. Did you test it before installing it or did you install it with the injection pump on it. What makes you feel the injection pump is ok. From this side of the computer I see lots of questions you need to answer so we can better help you. Mostly if the injection pump was removed did you remove it with the housing and gear still attached? If so my bet is the gear timing ia way off now so it will never run right. Funny thing is these engines will run 180 degrees out of gear time. The cam gear has both a "Y" and a dot timing mark. This is what it looks like.

 

[thatfordguy]

Tell us about the replacement engine. Did you test it before installing it or did you install it with the injection pump on it. What makes you feel the injection pump is ok. From this side of the computer I see lots of questions you need to answer so we can better help you. Mostly if the injection pump was removed did you remove it with the housing and gear still attached? If so my bet is the gear timing ia way off now so it will never run right. Funny thing is these engines will run 180 degrees out of gear time. The cam gear has both a "Y" and a dot timing mark. This is what it looks like.

The only thing I used from the donor motor was the short block. I believe the ip is ok because the truck (the donor motor was from a 90 e250) was sorta running when I got it. I was told the donor motor was running when they pulled It. Donor motor did not include an ip. I tore it down put my fresh turbo heads, turbo ip, turbo injectors, turbo low pressure pump, turbo intake, etc on it. I did take the front cover off. I lined the dots up from the crank to cam and lined the y's up from cam to ip. I was extremely paranoid about making sure I had all those lined up right. I had my diesel book right next to me following step by step. The only thing I just thought of was I used the ip gear from the turbo not from the donor motor. I did not compare them to see if the y's were in the same spot. I assumed since the motors even had the same firing order that they we're the same. Any other questions I will try to answer. I believe I did everything by the book, literally.

 

[BDCarrillo]

Pump timing is variable due to the elongated pump mount bolt holes. You could be running very retarded even with the geartrain lined up. Easiest check (without a proper light) would be to advance the timing and verify results.

 

[thatfordguy]

Pump timing is variable due to the elongated pump mount bolt holes. You could be running very retarded even with the geartrain lined up. Easiest check (without a proper light) would be to advance the timing and verify results.

I've tried putting the pump in many positions but it never seems to run any different. I see the scribe lines on the pump and housing. Approximately how far should the pump be turned to be close. Is someone able to post a picture of where their pump is turned so I can try to get mine at least close?

 

[BDCarrillo]

It will vary greatly. "Straight up" is a recommended starting position if there aren't any marks. Do keep in mind the marks, if any, were specific to the pump that was on it. ~dime thickness per adjustment is the recommended procedure.

Any other pump related symptoms? Hard starts, smoke at idle, stumbling on acceleration?

Edit: re-read the thread... kinda odd to blow black smoke and lack power. Black smoke is unburnt fuel due to a lack of oxygen (ie boost), whereas a haze would have indicated retarded timing. If there aren't any observable or audible changes from tinkering with the timing, you may be very far out of timing.

How many miles were on each motor? IP?

 

[thatfordguy]

it blows just a little bit of grey smoke but I poured some atf in the fuel. When it's hot it was a a little hard to start so I was slowly turning it back towards straight up. And it got a little easier. Not really any stumbling on acceleration just lack of acceleration in General. The truck had 179k miles the donor motor had 200k+ don't know for sure. So the ip had 179k or less. And that's part of my problem is I'm not getting boost. How many dime thicknesses is my starting point from straight up. I used the housing that came with the ip. I think I need to try to tighten up the exhaust again and see if that fixes my boost problem and go from there

 

[BDCarrillo]

Hmmm... hard hot starts can be a sign of pump wear. If the pump has 197k on it I'm surprised it runs at all.

Keep working the pump toward the passenger side. My thought is incomplete combustion due to late injection, meaning less heat and exhaust gas expansion, therefore neglible boost and excess smoke. May be off a tooth or have a shot IP.

 

[thatfordguy]

I had the pump at about 4 dime widths now I'm at about 2 dime widths. I don't know. I'm about ready to just sell the truck. Still can't even go up a slight hill in second. It does seem like it runs better cold than it does when it warms up

 

[BDCarrillo]

IP is likely toast if it has 197k on it, has hard hot starts, and weak acceleration. The advance piston is steel, the bore is aluminum. Wear occurs and internal fuel pressure isn't maintained so the desired timing advance doesn't occur when overfueling to accelerate. Thus smoke and poor power output on increased accelerator input.

Typical pump and injector life is 100k miles.

 

[Black dawg]

How does the engine start/run, no load, and does it smoke? Hot? Cold?

 

[dunk]

I had the pump at about 4 dime widths now I'm at about 2 dime widths. I don't know. I'm about ready to just sell the truck. Still can't even go up a slight hill in second. It does seem like it runs better cold than it does when it warms up

All this dime nonsense is just wasting your time and irritating you. Either buy a timing setup or bring it to someone with the tools to time it. Anything you do to timing is just a WAG, kind of like putting a gas engine crank at 10* and putting distributor in with rotor pointing at #1. It'll get you close enough that it'll run but that's about it. That's all those marks on the IP and gear housing are for, close enough to run, however poorly that may be. On my truck there was a huge increase in performance and MPG when changing timing from 6.5* to 9*, but I doubt it I rotated the pump more than a few thousandths.

Your lack of boost I'd wager is most likely a small leak in either exhaust or intake. A tiny leak makes a huge drop in boost. Could also be a problem with the turbo, did the wheels and housing look alright? No wear or damage from contact?

Selling the truck because your wild guesses at timing aren't giving the desired result is about like selling a gas truck because your wild guesses at timing and jetting aren't giving the desired result and you don't feel like changing the old fouled spark plugs. Also, your expectations may be a little high for a stock turbo motor. Can't get out of its own way is normal for my turbo 6.9. If you're used to driving gas trucks a turbo IDI will be a lot slower. 0-60? Yeah it'll do 60...

 

[thatfordguy]

I guess the biggest irritating factor is that I can tune a gasser without having to use my light. just by sound and how it drives. But I guess I don't have that ability with a diesel. I will have to try to figure something out when the temp gets back above 10deg. Right now it's 5 deg feels like -20 so I don't really feel like messing with it til it warms up this weekend.