creighta
Full Access Member
have you tried turning your pump down?
black smoke riddle
- Thread starter punkmechanic
- Start date
k_williams1982
'01 Excursion 4x4
When I was at his place, he had the remaned pump installed and hadn't messed with the fuel, i.e. left if factory. I might be wrong, so I will let punk fill in any details on that.
crashnzuk
Full Access Member
Could there be a fuel return line restriction? A return line restriction would artificially raise the internal fuel pressure right?
Travis..
Travis..
punkmechanic
diesel tech
williams, thanks for the input. I never get an outside view of what is going on so I have no idea except what I hear/see/gauges tell me. I remember you saying it was chugging and that is why Im leaning towards injectors (that I am an running out of other ideas).
zuk a return line restriction has crossed my mind and still needs checked out. Im thinking that Im going to get new injectors that are known good and see how that helps, at the very least it narrows the field and shout smooth out the the rattle and hopefully run more evenly (thus eliminating the chugging that williams noted). once the injectors are in I will see what the pressures to and from in the fuel system look like and go from there.
She sure is cranky for some reason. maybe she is just pissed cause I drive the benz more now to cut down on fuel cost and live easier parking lol.
punk
zuk a return line restriction has crossed my mind and still needs checked out. Im thinking that Im going to get new injectors that are known good and see how that helps, at the very least it narrows the field and shout smooth out the the rattle and hopefully run more evenly (thus eliminating the chugging that williams noted). once the injectors are in I will see what the pressures to and from in the fuel system look like and go from there.
She sure is cranky for some reason. maybe she is just pissed cause I drive the benz more now to cut down on fuel cost and live easier parking lol.
punk
typ4
Full Access Member
A restricted return will actually shut the engine down if it closes completely. Pinch the line shut on the pump some time and you will see what I mean.
dyoung14
Is getting worn out
Here some injectors and return lines ford sale good price too http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31831
punkmechanic
diesel tech
***Update****
sorry to bump my own thread, but it kinda went dead while I was too busy to sleep the last week and a half
To recap I the 87 cc in my sig and it is clouding 4 lane highways with black smoke and is gutless. I put "new" injectors in awhile back from a core motor at work that had just had them put in. Then I started running waste trans fluid and was happy with the power (not great but got out of its own way) and fuel mileage. It slowly seemed to lose power over a couple months. I switched back to regular #2 and didnt seem to help. Had the pump rebuilt, didnt improve as much as I had hoped. Just before the pump and with the new pump came the smoke. I messed with the timing and turned the old pump down to no avail.
Last week I cleaned the engine bay and did a full compression test with good results and the week prior did a blow by test with good results. After I cleaned the engine I removed the air filter just to see, that up until today had the biggest impact. Noticeably less smoke (still a lot though) and better power.
Today I turned the pump down three flats, new pump just rebuilt that I simply unpackaged and bolted on. I also reset the timing using my snap on meter and light. Im think the timing is a bit retarded but the power is MUCH more acceptable and the smoke is now a light gray haze at worst (take off, hard accel, and hills). My meter was acting up and was picking up random vibrations. At one point it was telling me the rpm at idle was 2200-3600. I found that it was the same for #1 or #4 injector and that I could get it to read (more) correctly if I put my hand on it gentle to smooth out the excess vibrations. I want to try and time it with a lumi probe and see if I get more accurate results
Im going to try and advance the timing a very small amount and see if I can get the gray haze to go away.
All in all I think the problem was a combination of too much fuel, too far advanced and the 7.3 filter I was running isnt breathing enough.
Im getting closer, little by little but that is kinda the story of my life. Little improvements and progress over time. I took steadily move though and there is somthing to be said for that.
Thanks all,
punk
Let me know if this helps anyone or if anyone has input to further the progress.
sorry to bump my own thread, but it kinda went dead while I was too busy to sleep the last week and a half
To recap I the 87 cc in my sig and it is clouding 4 lane highways with black smoke and is gutless. I put "new" injectors in awhile back from a core motor at work that had just had them put in. Then I started running waste trans fluid and was happy with the power (not great but got out of its own way) and fuel mileage. It slowly seemed to lose power over a couple months. I switched back to regular #2 and didnt seem to help. Had the pump rebuilt, didnt improve as much as I had hoped. Just before the pump and with the new pump came the smoke. I messed with the timing and turned the old pump down to no avail.
Last week I cleaned the engine bay and did a full compression test with good results and the week prior did a blow by test with good results. After I cleaned the engine I removed the air filter just to see, that up until today had the biggest impact. Noticeably less smoke (still a lot though) and better power.
Today I turned the pump down three flats, new pump just rebuilt that I simply unpackaged and bolted on. I also reset the timing using my snap on meter and light. Im think the timing is a bit retarded but the power is MUCH more acceptable and the smoke is now a light gray haze at worst (take off, hard accel, and hills). My meter was acting up and was picking up random vibrations. At one point it was telling me the rpm at idle was 2200-3600. I found that it was the same for #1 or #4 injector and that I could get it to read (more) correctly if I put my hand on it gentle to smooth out the excess vibrations. I want to try and time it with a lumi probe and see if I get more accurate results
Im going to try and advance the timing a very small amount and see if I can get the gray haze to go away.
All in all I think the problem was a combination of too much fuel, too far advanced and the 7.3 filter I was running isnt breathing enough.
Im getting closer, little by little but that is kinda the story of my life. Little improvements and progress over time. I took steadily move though and there is somthing to be said for that.
Thanks all,
punk
Let me know if this helps anyone or if anyone has input to further the progress.
k_williams1982
'01 Excursion 4x4
How's the performance at higher rpms? I barely blow any black somke, but "run out" of fuel at about 3,200-3,300 rpms. I'm glad to see that it's working a little better for you. BTW, how did your exhaust idea work out?
Sounds like your making good progress. 
If your timing readings are not steady, then your probably not getting an accurate reading, and it still isn't set to what you think it is. It's been my experience that you pretty much need to be able to maintain a steady ready in the full RPM range to ensure accuracy. Anybody who has watched my timing clinics can attest that the RPMS are brought up slow to watch the meter and make sure it doesn't jump around. Don't forget, these trucks only have a clear exhaust when they are on the flat and level. If your looking to make that gray haze go away under load, you're expecting too much.
If your timing readings are not steady, then your probably not getting an accurate reading, and it still isn't set to what you think it is. It's been my experience that you pretty much need to be able to maintain a steady ready in the full RPM range to ensure accuracy. Anybody who has watched my timing clinics can attest that the RPMS are brought up slow to watch the meter and make sure it doesn't jump around. Don't forget, these trucks only have a clear exhaust when they are on the flat and level. If your looking to make that gray haze go away under load, you're expecting too much.
punkmechanic
diesel tech
I doubt I can totally eliminate the haze and still maintain decent performance. That said I think that judging by the accel characteristics and sound of the engine (and the meter being kinda screwy) that it is still a bit retarded and a small amount of advance would help both performance and reduce the gray haze.
I may need to turn the pump back up a little until it smokes then back it off to just under the smoke point, then reset the timeing. going back and forth will eventually dial it in.
overall Im quite pleased and feel that it still isnt what it should be, at least im not afraid to drive it now. Before I was just waiting to break down or get pulled over for mass polluting (this is portland). Now I think im ok, no speed demon but at least I will get there.
punk
I may need to turn the pump back up a little until it smokes then back it off to just under the smoke point, then reset the timeing. going back and forth will eventually dial it in.
overall Im quite pleased and feel that it still isnt what it should be, at least im not afraid to drive it now. Before I was just waiting to break down or get pulled over for mass polluting (this is portland). Now I think im ok, no speed demon but at least I will get there.
punk
k_williams1982
'01 Excursion 4x4
Justin, hopefully I can get up your way again soon and I'll see if I can help you out.
On a side note, I got your message about the used ATF, and I'll haul back all I can get! I have my filter system running pretty good now, so we won't have to sit around for 3 hours filtering ATF before I bring it home this time. 
I'm hoping to cut back the amount of oil I use in the mix and try to run more ATF in it. I find my truck runs best on a 1 gallon oil, 1 gallon ATF, and 2 gallons of diesel for the mix. I will call you tomorrow and let you know when I'm headed up that way. I might be going to Washington this week to pick up another bike.
On a side note, I got your message about the used ATF, and I'll haul back all I can get!
I have my filter system running pretty good now, so we won't have to sit around for 3 hours filtering ATF before I bring it home this time. I'm hoping to cut back the amount of oil I use in the mix and try to run more ATF in it. I find my truck runs best on a 1 gallon oil, 1 gallon ATF, and 2 gallons of diesel for the mix. I will call you tomorrow and let you know when I'm headed up that way. I might be going to Washington this week to pick up another bike.Diesel JD
Full Access Member
I'm wondering why you wouldn't just pull the current group of injectors out and test them since I'm assuming you have access to the tool. I'd suspect an improperly calibrated pump or an injector or two that was different than the others in pop pressure or maybe a leaker.
Punk,
I think all the fuel related items should be checked first, but have you given any thought to weak valve springs? Maybe some of the odd sounds at higher RPMs is floating valves. That could explain the lack in power and smoke at higher RPMs, but good compression otherwise.
I'm just throwing another log on the fire. I'm hopeful someone that's had that experience will chime in and provide the symptoms they had.
You're doing a hell of a job troubleshooting though. Great job.
Paul
I think all the fuel related items should be checked first, but have you given any thought to weak valve springs? Maybe some of the odd sounds at higher RPMs is floating valves. That could explain the lack in power and smoke at higher RPMs, but good compression otherwise.
I'm just throwing another log on the fire. I'm hopeful someone that's had that experience will chime in and provide the symptoms they had.
You're doing a hell of a job troubleshooting though. Great job.
Paul
punkmechanic
diesel tech
I have consider valve springs and plan to check them once I get into a house with a real garage. Im gonna pull the motor and give it a good once over, reseal it (oil pan gasket is starting to go), and install head studs while Im at it.
It is running considerably better now and Im getting close. I need to turn the full up a hair and set the timing a little more advance. My egt's max at 1000 and the boost tops at 5. The engine sounds MUCH better, but is a little too quite for my ear. I need to get a lumy probe and be done with the pulse adapter.
Im planning on pulling and replacing the injectors. type4 has a hell of a deal going and Im gonna check all mine once I swap them, then they can be a "behind the seat" set or garbage depending on the results.
I think the old pump and crazy timing caused coking due to me not working it hard enough and the air cleaner being clogged. with the new pump, fresh air filter and timing adjusted it is running a lot better, but I still think I can tweak it to "just right".
I am also running a tank of b99 to clear the carbon out and see. Crazy how much better the idi's and mercedes run on b99 than the ulsd crap.
punk
It is running considerably better now and Im getting close. I need to turn the full up a hair and set the timing a little more advance. My egt's max at 1000 and the boost tops at 5. The engine sounds MUCH better, but is a little too quite for my ear. I need to get a lumy probe and be done with the pulse adapter.
Im planning on pulling and replacing the injectors. type4 has a hell of a deal going and Im gonna check all mine once I swap them, then they can be a "behind the seat" set or garbage depending on the results.
I think the old pump and crazy timing caused coking due to me not working it hard enough and the air cleaner being clogged. with the new pump, fresh air filter and timing adjusted it is running a lot better, but I still think I can tweak it to "just right".
I am also running a tank of b99 to clear the carbon out and see. Crazy how much better the idi's and mercedes run on b99 than the ulsd crap.
punk
