Failing fan clutch?

[Cubey]

I just found this post over on another forum, but it may explain why my gauge was reading high, and dropping when I tapped at it while driving down the road. Their gauge shows 3/4 at 180F in the pic they posted (at the link below), which I know is basically nothing on these IDIs.

My F250 runs that at low cruising RPMs on a level highway. It typically runs between 180-192 at highway speeds, sometimes as high as 200F before it drops from the thermostat opening. But that's usually from high RPMs from getting up to speed and merging onto the freeway.

I figured it was worth reposting this here, in case anyone runs across this thread and has a similar issue. Try tapping the gauge with your finger, if it immediately drops, you know it's sticking. Better yet, get a real gauge like I am about to do. I am going to install the mechanical temp gauge to the factory gauge sensor location. The reason being, it's much easier to reach on a van. The dummy light sensor is seriously hiding, while the gauge sensor is right out in the open with nothing blocking it.

My '87 Diesel motorhome, the dash gauge runs right in the middle on the R-M, and my real gauge reads 180*F cruising....

Never been over 210* under the most extreme conditions, and the dash gauge has pegged out many times.

And these older dashs, there is a solenoid behind the cluster, witch often sticks, causing all the gauges to read high.

Source:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1134528-cooling-issues-87-e350-motorhome.html#post11353957

 

[snicklas]

Yep, I thought I had mentioned the IVR when you first asked about it. I might not, but I know it’s been discussed. I’ve had this happen on both an 83 F-150 and an 85 E-150.... sacres you the first couple of times.

 

[Cubey]

Yep, I thought I had mentioned the IVR when you first asked about it. I might not, but I know it’s been discussed. I’ve had this happen on both an 83 F-150 and an 85 E-150.... sacres you the first couple of times.

Could be, maybe I didn't notice, or I just don't remember.

I'm gonna go with the Equus 6242 mechanical gauge, if I didn't mention it before. I can get it for about $14 actual cost on Amazon, as I have $13 in gift card balance. I like how 240 is in BIG numbers, so you can easily the "uh oh" mark without having to hunt for the line while driving.

https://www.iequus.com/6242.html

 

[Cubey]

Yeah, it sees like it's running a bit warm, it's about 72F out today and it was running 192F from driving around town at 15-25mph in 2nd gear at most, due how the shift points are in this.

I manually shift from 1st to to 2nd to keep RPMs down in 25-30mph or below zones. It shifts to 2nd at around 28 and 3rd around 42, despite all sorts of attempts to alter that. But that's a totally separate issue I'm not looking to address here. Or at all, I'm sick of messing with that. It shifts fine on it's own, just at speeds I'm unhappy with.

The picture below showing it at 190F was after about a minute or two of being shut off. It dropped about 2 degrees very quickly. The gauge's sensor is in the factory gauge sensor location for those who weren't aware. It's the easiest to reach on a van chassis mounted engine.

The fan seems to run all the time, so that's better than not at all since it's running warm, at least compared to my 87 F250 NA which near-idle drives at around 180F. I sprayed the cold radiator with a garden hose a few weeks ago from the fan side, but I don't know how much good it might have done.

Something to consider is that it's lacking cold air intake. It's sucking all it's air through the filter from the top of the engine bay. Yes, I know that's not ideal. I'm weary of sourcing a expensive used ATS 085 air box lid in the event it wont fit in the van engine bay. That could be why it doesn't have one, using a retaining ring to hold in the air filter instead.

Naturally, people who have one for sale typically have the bottom of the air box too, which I don't need. So I end up buying a part that I have no use for. ATS van kits are so rare, I have no one to ask to confirm or deny if the lid will fit, or I'd consider getting one even if it comes with the bottom of the box that I don't need.

The alternative would be to totally remove the ATS air box, buy one of those cone shaped filters, connect it directly to the turbo by a LONG air tube and try to place it near the grill/radiator.

I would have to do something about the valve cover vent hole, maybe put in a tiny cone air filter so it can vent to atmosphere. Currently, it connects to the air intake between the air filter and turbo intake (no filtering) without a CDR. ATS didn't add CDR to the 085 until later, which you can tell by mine lacking the mounting point for it on the lower air box. And the online diagrams not showing a CDR! Some 085 air boxes you see online in pics show one, but mine definitely lacks it.

Another problem with the ATS 085 kit/lid is that the lid's intake points towards the driver's side. On vans, the cold air intake box is on the passenger side. Due to how the bottom of the the box is positioned, I don't think you can just reverse the lid. The snorkel would be either right against the engine bay firewall, or not even fit. So you would have to somehow run an intake tube from the passenger side cold air intake box all the way around to the driver's side of the air box. Where can you even run it? Between the fan and engine? Behind it, against the turbo? There's really no good solution.

I suspect that ATS said "f*** it, put a retaining ring instead of a lid" because they sold so few van kits and it's not a problem you can really otherwise solve.

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[The_Josh_Bear]

192* is not running hot. The OEM/Motorcraft t-stat doesnt even begin to open until 195*.

Sure its hotter than your pickup but it's also carrying 4k more weight and really if your pickup drives around at 180* then that's too low. I wouldn't worry but it's not OE.

Yes you'll benefit from pulling cool air from outside, I'm in the same boat with my BHAF. Cant help with your setup though as I'm not familiar with it, in my situation it'll most likely be a cold/ram air by building a box around the filter and then putting a scoop above it in the hood. I might be able to build the box and run a modified OE snorkel over the passenger battery though. I'm slowly looking into it.

But again your temps are perfect since that's the lowest operational temp for any normal IDI.

 

[Cubey]

192* is not running hot. The OEM/Motorcraft t-stat doesnt even begin to open until 195*.

Sure its hotter than your pickup but it's also carrying 4k more weight and really if your pickup drives around at 180* then that's too low. I wouldn't worry but it's not OE.

Yes, I understand it's not running "hot" but it runs warmer than my F250 does at near-idle conditions. The RV is much taller, it's heaver and has a 4.10 Dana 70 dually rear end instead of a 3.55 SRW full floating Sterling 10.25.

The truck has an Equus gauge too, but I put an electronic one, not mechanical, because I was a dork and thought it piped coolant into the cab for mechanical gauges, like how mechanical oil pressure gauges do. Also, on the trunk I put the sensor in the dummy light sensor's port, so maybe the temperature is a bit different there. It's hard to reach in the van chassis so I didn't want to mess with trying to put it there.

The truck runs around 190-195F at highway speeds, peaking at around 200F if speeding up to merge on the freeway, or up big hills. I have yet to run the RV on the highway since I put the gauge so I don't know what it does. I will know that in 4 weeks from today.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I would have to do something about the valve cover vent hole, maybe put in a tiny cone air filter so it can vent to atmosphere.

That may not be a good idea considering that you're in a van. That would place it about, what?, 6-8" from your right foot? In that situation, I'd rather install a long RDT that runs at least half way to the back to keep the fumes away from you.

 

[Cubey]

That may not be a good idea considering that you're in a van. That would place it about, what?, 6-8" from your right foot? In that situation, I'd rather install a long RDT that runs at least half way to the back to keep the fumes away from you.

Yep. At least the doghouse gasket seals well on and the driver's side. The passenger side doesn't. ATS put a different trans dipstick tube (its in the diagram) to clear the down pipe, and the doghouse cover hits into it. At least I think it's the ATS tube. Unless its the stock one bent some.

 

[Cubey]

This is a level shot of the air filter. It sits at the slant you see, both foward and to the passenger side.

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The following shows the trans dipstick tube against the doghouse cover, and how little room there is. In fact now that I took that picture, I can see that the dipstick tube would block the air box lid from going on in reverse. So assuming a lid can fit, you must have the intake facing the driver's side, where there is no cold air intake box.

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[Cubey]

Ok yeah, Im convinced that what you see is how ATS sold van kits. On @genscripter 's site, there is someone else's quote, saying the following:

I read the ATS truck setup won’t work in a van for the following reasons. When I shopped around for a van turbo kit, I remember the truck air filter housing opening from the top, and with the van engine compartment having a roof, it couldn’t be opened. Also, the intake hat is conjoined with the housing, so using the air intake was totally out. Also, I read the turbo mount is too tall, so the turbo would clash with the roof of the engine compartment. The mounts for the turbo all have to be van-specific, otherwise they don’t fit either. The up pipes won’t fit in the doghouse, nor the down pipe.

Clearly, I do have a van kit since the up and down pipes don't interfere, nor is the turbo up too high. Based on the 085 diagram online that matches mine without CDR, the intake hat isn't conjoined. So presumably that's how mine is too.

But regarding the air box lid, yeah I don't think it can fit. I'm guessing not. It's hard enough getting the filter in and out with just the retaining ring. Even if it did, it would do no good, as the cold air intake is on the opposite side. I could try running a 3" pipe up there from the box, a little bit of cold air might reach the air filter, but an enclosed lid seems impossible.

Quite honestly, about the only direct way to give it cold air intake is a hood scoop pointing to the center of the air filter between the upper rad hose and the fuel filter.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

It would take some work, but your idea of the piping directly off of the turbo with a cone filter st the front may work. You's have to move the fuel filter off of the engine. Underneath along the frame would probably be the best place for it. Then you'd have to come up with a different fuel line to run from the lift pump into the back of the injector pump. That way you could run the air filter towards the driver's side. Just something else for you to think about.

 

[Cubey]

It would take some work, but your idea of the piping directly off of the turbo with a cone filter st the front may work. You's have to move the fuel filter off of the engine. Underneath along the frame would probably be the best place for it. Then you'd have to come up with a different fuel line to run from the lift pump into the back of the injector pump. That way you could run the air filter towards the driver's side. Just something else for you to think about.

I could pipe the air tube to a U as it connects to the turbo and run it over the top of the engine, back over to the passenger side and down towards the factory cold air intake box. Clearly the stock setup runs the air tube up along the passenger side, in the vicinity of the dipstick tubes, behind the vac pump and alt. The worst parts would be keeping the air filter still so that it doesn't bounce out, and cutting open the cold air intake box, if it can't just be unbolted.

It does get some airflow as it is, being tilted forward. I don't know if the truck kits are like that or not. It could be a design feature for the vans so it gets better airflow off of the fan. Of course, that's hot air that passed though the radiator.

Well, that's all stuff to consider later on. This thing probably pulled a trailer or car behind it with the air filter setup it has now, and I think the engine burns less oil than my F250, so it's probably healthier/less worn.

Once I get it on the highway in a month, I'll have a better idea of what it's doing temperature wise. I want to replace the thermostat but I'm hoping to wait until this winter. I've read that they can go bad and stop opening fully. At least I'm not driving in 100+ heat.

I might consider doing the thermostat while I'm there, since we gotta drain the radiator some to get the fan out anyway, due to the upper radiator hose. The hose is half off by that point too, which connects to the thermostat housing, so why not? It's not that much more work for me to do the thermostat, in my opinion. The alternator has to come out and the vac pump half removed (the upper bracket bolt). I've done the alternator and vac pump so much it's easy as can be. It's a little bit harder to tension the long alternator belt on the van chassis is all. So far it hasn't thrown the belt though, so I must be doing it right. I never threw it on the truck either

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Just make sure there's enough time for the engine to cool down.

 

[Cubey]

Just make sure there's enough time for the engine to cool down.

If needed, I could get there the night before and park there overnight. It's an RV after all, I wouldn't need to stay anywhere else. As long as I have a small grassy area to walk my leashed dog, that I do pick up after, that's all I need besides a place to park. No electric or water hookups needed. Then it would ice cold the next day.

Otherwise, it'll be hot as can be from driving down from Lexington the same day. There's no where free to park overnight between Lexington and there that I know of, and free is all I do for the most part. And even if there is, it would be a hot potato by the time I got there. It gets to 192F just from driving around about 3 miles total (a bit stop and go) at 25mph tops.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Well I have plenty of room at my garage. Your dog could possibly meet some of the neighbor dogs too. No issues with you being there although someone may ask you what you're doing.