Front end is shot, need some advise please...

[fields_mj]

Been having problems with the front end lately. I figured the alignment was bad, and maybe the tierods. I'd had a falling out with my last mechanic due to poor craftsmanship, and I've been looking around for a new one for the last few months. Had a guy in our maintenance department who runs in the truck pull circuit give me a recomendation last week. Dropped the ol girl off this morning and got a call at noon saying, you should probably come over and look at this. Basically, the whole front end is shot. Needs a new axle and everything that mounts to it including a new third member. He's located a replacement for $1100, but is still getting details to make sure the gears are correct. Rough estimate for the labor was $1800 (some issues with one of the rear brakes as well). That puts me at around $3K for the repair, but he can complete the work by the end of the week.

Now for the questions. He figures it will take him 3 full days to swap them out. Does this sound about right? It's a D50 front end.

Should I look into a D60 front end? More specifically, should it be less expensive to put a D60 in (parts plus labor)?

Lastly, should I really be wrapping $3K+ up in a 20 year old truck that's only got another 2 or 3 years left in her? I suspect she will die from cancer. In the past I've always concidered them "dead" when they hit this point because something in the tranny would be starting to go as well. Just put a new clutch kit in this one, I have 6 matching rims with new skins on one pair, but needing to get another pair before winter. Normally, I would say the truck is done, but I had planned on keeping this one as my firewood getter even after I replaced her. No front axle makes that a little difficult...

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Black dawg]

Without looking at it myself, it is really hard to say, but I think you need to find a different mechanic. I find it hard to believe that it would need a new "axle and everything that mounts to it".

1800 dollars? What is his shop rate?

 

[fields_mj]

The problem is that the last mechanic missed the problem originally, and now I've put another 10K miles on it durring which it has litterally fallen apart on me. Mounting bolts have backed off, wallered out, fallen out, holes are stripped ect. Unaware of the problem, I tried to back up with the hubs locked in this last weekend and bent one of the front drive shafts. It's not all bad, but by the time you tear it all down and replace just the bad stuff, I think he's telling me that I'm money ahead to buy the entire axle already assembled. Looking at the condition of things, I think he's right. I've nickle and dimed the front end on this thing for the last 4 years, and this isn't the first time I've thought about just replacing the entire thing.

In talking with him, I don't think he's pulled a D50 out of a diesel before. His background is in transmissions, and he works on a lot of race cars and pulling trucks, and has been for about 30 years. That doesn't mean he's good, but at least he was working on our trucks when they were new and not reading about them in some history book. The mechanic is conserned that he may need to lift the engine slightly to do the job. I don't think he'll need to do that, but I'm not sure. Either way, given the lack of local tallent, I'm stuck with who/what I have for now. The last mechanic charged $45/hr. Given my level of disatifaction with him, I'm willing to pay a little more just to try someone else. If he can get it done in 3 days, it's worth paying a little more for the shop rate. Every other mechanic I've used took an extra 2~3 days or more to do any work I've ever had done. I'm in a rental right now, so time is money on both sides of the equation.

 

[Black dawg]

well, that does sound a little more messed up than I originally pictured. I still think the labor is out of line, but maybe he is just guessing really high, and will be more reasonable after the work is completed.

To put it in perspective, I have a truck here with a 60 to part out, the 60 is replacing a 50 in a customer pickup, and the whole job (with parts put into the 60) will be 1600.

 

[SparkandFire]

Real quick, before the "Dana 60 swap" crowd gets going, you need to look at what he is going to do in those three days. Is that 8 hours a day for three days, or is it "hey I need your truck for three days" then he works on it here and there, off and on for 8 hours over three days.

Three days to drop the D50 drivers side chunk and pop a used one under there seems excessive. Three days to rebuild everything, new u-joints, ball joints, pivot bushings, leaf bushings, seals, pack wheel bearings, change diff fluid... that seems more reasonable.

It took me at least 24 hours of work to rebuild everything on my D50. Had I the chance to do it all over again, I would have rather dug up a D60 and done the swap. But that is up to you...

 

[HiHorse]

The D50 doesn't take more that 2.5hours to drop out, in a properly equipped shop like mine (hoist and air tools), and about 4 hours to reinstall with new bushings. D50 frt axles are practially free if you do some searching. I don't know what your area is like, but just use caution when dealing with new mechanics. BTW, if he is a "transmission guy", then I would recommend looking else where to find a "suspension guy".

 

[fields_mj]

I think he is going with the worse case at this point, but assuming that the ball joints in the new(er) axle are good, and not having to lift the motor any to get the axles in and out. I think I'm going to have him do the work. I just can't swing $10K for a newer truck right now, and if I buy anything in the ballpark of what I have, there's a good chance that I'll be back in the same boat before too long. Wouldn't be as bad if I could hang on to this one for parts, or visa versa, but the wife ain't going to have any part of that.

 

[fields_mj]

BTW, if he is a "transmission guy", then I would recommend looking else where to find a "suspension guy".

I'd love to. There are none. Around here, you're luck to find a guy that can correctly change your fluids out. I think a lot of them chose to be mechanics because highschool was just too dang hard. It's a shame too. They give good mechanics a REALLY bad name.

I'm sure that under ideal circumstances this would be an 8 hr job. Having said that, I've wrenched on this truck enough to know that NOTHING is ever close to ideal. Seems like every bolt I touch is frozen solid or broken off. That's why I take it to a mechanic now. I got tired of calling in sick just to spend the day laying on my back in the muddy (or slushy) driveway getting a face full of sand and dirt snapping off bolts.

 

[riotwarrior]

Find a D60 don't ...Don't ....DON'T waste 1100 bucks on a replacement TTB you should be able to pick one up for about 350 complete at most...

How does he KNOW this other one is not needing any parts or such and going to cost MORE???

You've nickled and dimed this front end so why continue down this path? If you invest in a SAS you will get that money back even if truck rusts out. You can resell the D60 when done with truck. However 1100 for a TTB won't get u jack!

NO way do you need to LIFT the engine to work on the suspension...you must have one leg considerably longer than the other from people pulling on it so much!

The TTB swap if you went that way...not even a day. should be 6hr job dropping a TTB is real easy! Two brake lines, one TRE four u bolts one drive shaft and it drops...IIRC Reverse going in...

JM2CW

Al

 

[fields_mj]

Okay, it's time for me to ask the stupid question. I've been told the answer to this before, but it's been a LONG time and I've forgotten the answer.

What does the D60 solid axle get me that the D50 TTB doesn't? I understand that the D60 is easier to work on, but there has to be more to it than that.

 

[freebird01]

more even tire wear.... better ride...less parts to worry about (ie no pivot bushings..one less u-joint)

 

[riotwarrior]

Okay, it's time for me to ask the stupid question. I've been told the answer to this before, but it's been a LONG time and I've forgotten the answer.

What does the D60 solid axle get me that the D50 TTB doesn't? I understand that the D60 is easier to work on, but there has to be more to it than that.

Strength, bigger axles, less tyre wear, bigger U joints, One less U joint, slight lift, better steering, less worries, higher resale value.

Those are just off the top of my head...

Al

 

[fields_mj]

Strength, bigger axles, less tyre wear, bigger U joints, One less U joint, slight lift, better steering, less worries, higher resale value.

Those are just off the top of my head...

Al

That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for

The good news is that the place he would get the parts for also has a D60, supposedly for the same price. My guess is that this is a parts warehouse and not just a salvage yard, so they charge about the same price regardless of what type of axle it is. I stopped and spoke with him about it on my way home. He's going to confirm in the morning that he can get the D60 delivered with the 3.55 gears. He's done this swap before, but it's been a long time and I can tell by the look on his face that he's worried that he's forgetting something. I think he's really concerned that there's a problem with the swap that he's long since forgotten about, and by the time he remembers it, he's going to be neck deep in it with no way out and doesn't want to get a bad rep out of the deal. I think I'll give him a call and point him towards oilburners. Couldn't hurt right?

 

[oregon96psd]

NO way do you need to LIFT the engine to work on the suspension...you must have one leg considerably longer than the other from people pulling on it so much!

JM2CW

Al

Pretty sure he's thinking you might have to because the bolt's that hold the make believe center pivot brackets are probably jacked up, and if your motor mounts are shot they won't fit out between the oil pan and the crossmember. There's a LOT more to working on other people's **** than most realize, warranty, insurance and accountability come to mind. $1800 to gut the front end of his junker, re install and fix the rear brakes doesn't seem that bad. Wether the rusted out pickup is worth it...well that's up to the op.

 

[ksingltn]

you will definitely need a track bar and mount. If you are lucky, the yard that pulled them unbolted the 3 bolts for the track bar mount and left it all together, but if not, Precision metal fab makes a good track bar mount for $75, and rockauto has the trackbar for about the same price, so you will be looking at $150 for that. May need the lower U-bolt plate for the drivers side as well, if you cant find and OBS one get one from a dealer for a 99-04 F-350 (What I did) TTB and D60 use the same U-bolts, so get a new set of them from rockauto or your local parts house (mine were <$25 for all 4, not worth risking resusing them, need to do this even if you swap out for a better condition TTB)

If you get the F-350 pitman arm, you will have a better turning radius. The F250 TTB arm works, but its shorter, so doesn't have as much throw.

Also, make sure the D60 is out of an 86-97 F-350, as the 99+ superduty D60's use a unit bearing hub and have a different lug pattern. <91 are king pin, >91 are ball joint, makes no difference on a DD street driven truck. 94+ have larger brakes, so might be worth finding one of those.

I did have to unbolt one motor mount and lift the motor to get the bolts for the center pivots out of the crossmember. Easy job, 2 nuts, hit em with the impact and jacked er up just enough to get em out.