Well, that was short lived....(sigh)

[sle2115]

Well, I thought I had burped it all out, but I just did another run, and when I came home, it wasn't bubbling at all. (***?)

So once it cooled a bit, I pulled the rad cap, and it looked like the coolant is down a bit. so I filled it up, and then levelled off the overflow, and sealed it all up. I wasn't able to do any more runs today, so I just left it at that.

Checked the oil, and it's not up, and no drips anywhere, so I'm hoping that it's just releasing air, and the coolant is replacing it, and it'll eventually settle down.

Good signs Zigg. I hope it all works out for you. I can tell you that mine kept getting a little low on coolant for several runs after I flushed it out and put the new water pump and coolant in there. Must be little pockets of air all over in there. Coolant never went down much, and has finally stopped, but I had the same fears as you.

Oh, and I had one of those cavaliers as well. We even lifted just the front end on the racks anytime we touched the cooling system on one at the shop! Then we got the vacuum deal that took care of it. The problem with them was the cooling jacket was higher than the radiator, so the air just hung out there. There was another easy fix as well if you were doing a thermostat, and is something I do to all of them these days, which was to drill a small hole in the thermostat flange so air could get through.

Good luck,
Scott

 

[zigg]

Well, it's not looking very good.

Started this morning by putting the coolant pressure tester on the rad before firing it up. Pumped it up to 10psi, and it seemed to hold there nicely for over 5 minutes. I burped the pressure out, then started it up. It slowly over 5 minutes or so climbed to 15psi where the danger zone on the tester was, so I shut it off and released the pressure.

Put the cap back on, and ran it around the block till temp was showing on the gauge, and Hmmmm, no bubbles.

I drove it all day, and everytime I stopped, I checked. Once or twice, there were no bubbles, but then a couple times, I checked again, and there's the bubbles again.

I just got home from about a 5 mi drive, and stopped, and let it idle, and lo and behold, a steady stream of bubbles, about 2 per second.

Guess I'll just watch it for a few days more, but it's looking more and more like I may have to dive into it again. Damn

On a side note, some of you may remember Pete from the "other" site. I sent him a note to let him know what's been going on, and he tells me there's been a few "issues" with DAS work and some of their stuff, so maybe the heads I got from them weren't properly tested after all. Since it took me about 2 years to actually get the engine up and running in this truck, I'm sure they're not going to back their stuff up at all, but it's pretty frustrating...

I'll have to get them tested, for the peace of mind, and then new head gaskets again....

(sigh)

 

[Diesel JD]

Don, I'm sure you remember DSBlack's top end troubles on his DAS motor last summer. Still I would think if you had a bad head or head gasket you would see a leak UNLESS, it has an internal combustion leak...which MAY be suggested by the bubbles(or not) Try this... clamp your tester to the radiator and start the engine, you should see a slow buildup to the 13-16psi pressure range. If there is an internal combustion leak, you'll see the coolant pressure spike up well past the 15-20 psi range and quickly. Remember there's 400-525psi on the engine side of these motors and should be 13-16 on the coolant side. A word of caution...this is bad advice if your tester doesn't have a pressure relief valve that opens before it overloads. A tester without a pressure relief could explode or crack the radiator during this procedure. I'd hate to see that happen. Also don't pump any pressure on the radiator with the tester during this procedure, just let the system build its own pressure. That's what you want to see. What kind of internal pressure the system itself has.

 

[zigg]

If there is an internal combustion leak, you'll see the coolant pressure spike up well past the 15-20 psi range and quickly. Remember there's 400-525psi on the engine side of these motors and should be 13-16 on the coolant side.

Well, that's essentially what I saw this morning. It didn't really spike up there, but slowly and steadily over a few minutes, climbed to the top of the gauge on the tester to 15psi where there was a red line that said danger. So, I figured this to be the max.

My rad cap is a 13psi one, so, if the expectation of the coolant system is 13-16, it figures that anything over the 13 would show up as bubbles in the overflow tank?!

I'm wondering if I should be thinking a higher pressure cap?

Temp never once showed hot(stock gauge) and the thing certainly didn't boil at all. I never worked it much either though, just driving around town all under 40mph.

Thoughts....?

Zigg

 

[sassyrel]

zigg--thanks for the mail package--also--you ned a higher gauge--as some systems run as much as 20 lbs caps--i have a rad repair shop---and then check it again--and have a way to release the pressure-some caps--though it may say 13 psi--can go a few lbs higher--soooooo check it again--carefully

 

[RLDSL]

It sounds like you need to quit driving yourself nuts and break down and buy a combustion gas leak detector kit.
Snap on has them for about $65 (USD ) http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=1505&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Napa has them for around $55 (USD )
You set it on the radiator filler neck , fill it with special test fluid and draw air through the fluid . It will change colour if there is combustion gasses present in the cooling system. On diesels you need to leave it on a bit longer than the instructions say. It will detect even minute leaks. It's a mighty handy thing to have.

---------Robert

 

[Diesel JD]

Robert, I could very well be wrong, but i was told that combustion leak detectors don't work on diesels since they look for carbon monoxide. Do they look for other combustion gases as well? Yes I know there will be SOME CO from a diesel too.

 

[RLDSL]

Robert, I could very well be wrong, but i was told that combustion leak detectors don't work on diesels since they look for carbon monoxide. Do they look for other combustion gases as well? Yes I know there will be SOME CO from a diesel too.

Some kits work on diesels, some don't. Just have to buy one of the kits that do.
Even on the Napa kit , which is diesel rated,that I have, the colour change on a diesel is not as drastic as with a gas burner. It will go from blue to yellowish green, instead of to yellow, but if there's a leak, it will show, even a real small leak. Any change in the original blue indicates a leak.
The only problems I've had is if exhaust smoke is blowing toward the hood, it can give a false positive, so I hook my big box fan up blowing toward the front of the vehicle to avoid that.

-----------Robert

 

[subway]

Started this morning by putting the coolant pressure tester on the rad before firing it up. Pumped it up to 10psi, and it seemed to hold there nicely for over 5 minutes. I burped the pressure out, then started it up. It slowly over 5 minutes or so climbed to 15psi where the danger zone on the tester was, so I shut it off and released the pressure.

Zigg,
does your coolent pressure gage have a relief valve, if not it will climb into the high range if you let it on there. pressure constantly builds until fully up to temp but is regulated by the cap and kept from going over XX psi. the gage dousent release this pressure so it will keep climbing.

the key is how fast it climbs, if its slow and steady thats good. try it against a good truck to double check yourself.....

 

[dsblack]

Hang in there Don. We will all hope that it is only air. As I told you in PM, My issues were not DAS's fault(do not loan your newly rebuilt truck to a gasser driver). And they did help me get the repair done. There was a lot of frustration, but looking back on it, it was not their fault.

Hang in there !!!!

 

[zigg]

Well, still working on it. I ran it on and off for about an hour yesterday morning, and interestingly, no bubbles, but the overflow tank overflowed!!??

***?

So, I siphoned it down to the hot line(while the engine was hot) and let it cool, and it sucked the coolant back in as it should.

Now, I figure if it's leaking compression gasses out, it should therefore leak coolant back in(to a cylinder) if there's a crack. So, ran it till it was hot again, and then I put my pressure tester on it, and pumped it up to 15psi, and every 20 minutes I went out and pumped it up a bit to maintain 15psi. I did this for over 7 hours. For the first couple hours as it cooled, it took a few pumps to maintain the pressure, but after a while it didn't leak down much, but it always lost 1 or 2 psi every hour.

Finally, I put the socket on it, and bar'd it over by hand 4 full revs, and it wasn't hydrolocked. So, I started it up, and thought "if there is any coolant at all in a cylinder, it should come out the exhaust as white smoke"...

Fired right up instantly, and no smoke whatsoever.

So, now I don't know what else to think.

Interestingly, I talked to Paul at DAS yesterday at length. He is being very supportive, but couldn't come up with any explanation either. He says they usually get their engines started, take 'em out and run 'em for about 20 minutes, check for leaks and then just go. He mentioned the only other engine he ever remembers acting like this was one where they had sent a set of heads to a guy in Norway(anyone remember a guy from norway on here...?) and he had similar problems. DAS sent him another set of heads, and never heard from him again. Also interesting, is that the guy also was using ARP studs!!?? Coincidence??....

Anyway, for now, I think I'm going to just drive it a bit for a while, and see how it "develops"

I don't really think I'd be doing any harm. Doesn't appear to be anything in the oil, and/or coolant, and if it just bubbles a bit, what difference does it make?

Thoughts?....

Zigg

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah that might have been Ray Hell from over on TDS. I bet you have some slight coolant system leak but nothing as bad as cavitation, cracked block or cracked heads. I'm thinking loose hoses, bad heater core, bad water pump, etc.Hopefully it isn't any worse.

 

[RLDSL]

Thoughts?....

Zigg

Gnomes.....gotta be gnomes

Seriously though, if those studs are a common factor, I'm kinda wondering if you are getting a different clamping force with those things since they are stronger and harder than the stock bolts. Possibly need a re-torque or higher initial torque ???

---------Robert

 

[zigg]

Gnomes.....gotta be gnomes

Seriously though, if those studs are a common factor, I'm kinda wondering if you are getting a different clamping force with those things since they are stronger and harder than the stock bolts. Possibly need a re-torque or higher initial torque ???

---------Robert

Well, that's why I bought into the studs. The idea is supposed to be that the studs don't twist when you are torquing them(they are bottomed out before you start the torquing) and the threads on the top are fine, not course, so you get way more clamping force at 85 ft. lbs. than you would with the bolts which the torque applied to twist the entire length of the bolt and trying to turn a course thread at the bottom to clamp the heads down.

Zigg

 

[RLDSL]

Yeah, I know about all the selling features for the studs, but I can't help but wonder if they aren't better suited for racing engines that get warmed up good without load , then stomped on, rather than a street engine that will usually get fired up and started off down the street before reaching full heat and put under load before the block and heads have finished expanding and sliding around on the head gaskets. There had to be some serious R&D in the engineering depertmant at International to come up with the bolts that were put on the things to begin with for some reason.
I like hot rodding things as much as the next guy, but there's almost always a trade off for daily drivers. I've gained some well earned respect for factory engineers over time ( and lots of buying into better mousetraps in my younger years
Considering that the way that thing is acting is alot like a very slightly warped head or minor trace head gasket leak, and there's been another case like it with the studs...it's just a thought.

-----Robert