Cat_Rebel
Does not compute
Okay I know a few people on here that have done it. Any one got a link or some good pics to post up. My buddy can weld & fab good, I just need blue prints so to speak.
Welding a Dana 50 TTB
- Thread starter Cat_Rebel
- Start date
Alex S
Jeoff
are you talking welding up the gears to make a spool?
NJKen
is a daddy!
Probably welding it up to make a solid axle out of it. The whle thing is made f sheet metal so it lends itself to being welded
. If thats the case, it will be easier and a better ride to tough it out and find a 60.
Ken
. If thats the case, it will be easier and a better ride to tough it out and find a 60.Ken
zpd307
Registered User
go for it. i read about it being done, but wouldnt know how to do it. it was one of those things i thought about doing with the ttb 44 on my 87 150
MeanGreen
Full Access Member
I think Swamp Donkey had a write up, but this was back when thedieselstop was ford-diesel. I remember reading it, but I don't think it was a true step by step write up, but it was informative. Give Swamp a call.
Jerry
Jerry
Cat_Rebel
Does not compute
I'll send him a PM since the link seemed to die.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Google is your friend - page itself is down, but the cached version remains:
This is about converting the original factory TTB IFS into a straight or solid axle, using the original components-- it is NOT about how to swap in a solid axle.
I am seriously considering developing a series of kits to allow anyone with a TTB Ford--Bronco, Bronco II, Explorer, Ranger, F-150, F-250--to modify the existing TTB into a solid or straight axle. If you are interested, please contact me. If you are in Maine, definitely email me!
Return to: Truck Specifications, or Table of Contents
PART ONE: HOW TTB IFS WORKS
When used under a coil spring suspension, with the proper brackets and radius arms, the Ford TTB is a very simple, durable, effective setup, providing a reasonable amount of wheel travel with minor modification, and up to 14-18" of travel with extensive modifications. The only real disadvantage is alignment problems caused by the very sensitive relationship between the spring height and wheel camber angle.
When used under a leaf spring suspension, such as F-250's and some F-350's, achieving any more than about 4" of front wheel travel begins to create serious problems. The front suspension can be separated into 2 parts: the left axle beam and spring, and the right one. Because the spring is firmly bolted to one end of the axle beam, they must move together as one assembly. The other end of the axle beam is bolted to the drop bracket, which allows it to pivot up and down, but prevents any forward and backward movement.
The factory springs are "negative arch" type; in their normal loaded position they appear to be either bent over backwards slightly, with the eyes lower than the middle, or almost flat. The factory bumpstop usually allows the spring to compress no more than 1.75" before it bottoms out. The spring can arch up to allow the axle to droop up to about 5", depending on the spring package in the vehicle. With negative arch springs, when the spring compresses, it gets shorter, moving the axle back a tiny bit; when it droops, it lengthens, moving the axle forward a bit. Because of the limited travel in the springs, this forward / back movement creates no problems, with the bushing in the drop bracket able to absorb this. During these up and down movements, the axle beam also pivots around the drop bracket in a slight "( " shaped arc, and the more it moves up and down, the more curve in that arc. If one stood under the driver's side of the vehicle and watched the spring and axle move from full compression to full droop, the tire would start at the top of the "( " and move down around the curve to the left, past the middle, and end up at the bottom. In stock suspensions, the length of this arc is about 6"; the amount of bow or curve in the arc is barely more than 1/16". This is with the normal amount of travel.
PART 2: TTB'S LIMITATIONS
When a lift kit is installed, the new springs are positive arch, and are almost always more flexible than the original ones, and unless one lowers the bump stops to reduce the uptravel/compression, and installs limiting straps to reduce the downtravel/extension, problems develop at the spring shackle. The heavier the truck, the more the spring can compress, so diesels, big blocks, winches, snowplows, jumps, etc. all increase the spring's movement. This increased movement increases the amount of curve in the arc. With 12" of travel, this curve increases from 1/16" to over 1/2". During this movement through the arc, the front spring shackle is not only moving backward and forward 2-3" as the spring's length changes, but it also being twisted over 1" from side to side at the same time. The bolt in the shackle's upper bushing, around which it pivots, allows unlimited forward/backward movement. But the only way the shackle can move side to side is by compressing the bushing itself. This bushing is hidden inside the front frame rail, and is about 1½" in diameter, and 1½" wide. The shackle itself is 4½" long from eye to eye. For the shackle to move ½" to either side, this upper bushing gets compressed to almost nothing, and will promptly be crushed or torn out of the shackle eye.
If one's truck weighs 6,500 lbs., it will have some 3,500 lbs. on the front axle; each spring has ½ this load, and each spring bushing ½ of that. This puts 875 lbs. on that 1½" diameter bushing, and when the axle pivots, the leverage multiplies that several times over. Not only will the bushing's sleeve and bolt be crushed against the eye, but if the suspension travel is continues, the shackle itself will begin to bend, and then either the shackle or the spring eye bolt will break. When this happens, the frame ends up resting on the end of the spring. If the bolt in either the rear spring eye or the drop bracket were to break at this time, the whole front axle and spring would tear itself out from under the truck.
About 4 months after installing a 4" suspension lift in the truck, I began to notice a pull in the steering, and a clanking in the front end. This was caused by the original rubber bushings being crushed. I replaced them with polyurethane bushings from Skyjacker, and all was well for about a year. Then the left front shackle broke in two at the neck. I bought 2 from a salvage yard, and noticed that even on the stock donor truck, the bushings were showing signs of being crushed. I put in the left shackle with new bushings, and a month later the right one cracked at the spring eye bolt. It was also replaced, just in time for the bolt in the left spring eye to break. I replaced the metric 8.8 bolt with an SAE grade 8, only to have the shackle break again. That was way too much. Replacing failed parts with the same parts leads only to more failed parts. Needless to say, with all these shackle problems, the truck was also having some severe front end alignment troubles as well.
PART 3: BRAINSTORMING THE SOLUTION
I then spent the next month laying under the truck with various rulers, tape measures, protractors and strings, studying how the IFS worked and what was going wrong. (If it had been a coil spring suspension, with no shackle, there never would have been this problem in the first place.) As I lay there in the dirt, beside a gravel road in Maine over 100 miles from the nearest town, a bizarre plan began to form in my mind. It was possible to do a shackle reversal (moving the shackle from the front to the rear end of the spring); it was also possible to weld the two separate axle beam halves together to make a solid axle, and eliminate the shackle twisting. Furthermore, it was even possible to get 3-6" more lift at the same time, with relatively little extra cost.
(On a solid axle, when the springs compress and droop the shackle only moves forward and backward; the only time it can twist side to side is when one tire is a being pushed up into the wheel well, and the other side is drooping down. In normal driving, 99.99% of the movement is front/back only. And because the solid axle is twice as long as the IFS axle beam, the curve in the arc is half as much for a given amount of travel.)
Then I began putting different designs down on paper, with each one becoming simpler than the preceding one, until I had one that I knew would work. It consisted of building 2 box-like spring mounts (Spring Hanger 1, Spring Hanger 2) on the front frame ends, and tying them together with a cross brace. This would be the for the front spring mount; for the rear of the front spring, I would simply put a shackle, identical to what was used on the rear of the truck, in the existing spring hanger. This gave 4-5" of lift, and the shackle reversal. The axle beams would be removed from the truck, boxed in and gusseted to create a solid axle, and reinstalled minus the drop brackets. On the rear of the truck, the forward hanger on the rear spring could be lowered with a piece of flat steel plate, and the shackle bracket on the rear of the spring could be turned upside down, changing it from a tension to a compression style shackle. Wow!
It took several more weeks to get to all this down on paper, so I could take the designs to a machine shop.
Not only is this truck the only vehicle I own, but I also make my living with it, so this had to be done in no more than 3 days, start to finish.
I scheduled the time with the machine shop about 2 weeks in advance; they had done custom work for me before, and were even willing to let me come in and work with them on this project. Cool!
PART 4: DOING IT TO IT--CROSSING THE POINT OF NO RETURN
(These photos were taken about a year and a half after the conversion was done, and everything is covered with road salt, rust and sand from a New England winter. However, because they were taken in bright daylight with snow underneath, they are the clearest photos I have been able to get to date.)
We rolled the truck into the shop on a Tuesday morning, and began by jacking the truck up to get it supported by the frame. Next the entire front end was removed: tires, tie rods, axle beams, springs, shackles & drop brackets. The axle beams were set up on a welding table, and Skyjacker adjustable camber bushings were installed, setting them to their middle position. Next we took some lengths of angle iron, and tack welded the axle beams into position on the table, the two critical things being the proper width between the spring pads/mounting holes, and having the pads perfectly level and in line with each other. With the axle beams in place and everything checked, rechecked, and triple checked for alignment and accuracy, the welding began. A 6" wide piece of 1/2" thick flat stock was bent to lay on top of the axle, going all the way across and over the differential hump. On top of this, were put two strips of 1/2 x 2" flat for extra stiffeners. Then pieces were cut to box in the front and rear of the beams, tying them into the piece on top. Some clearance was left on the back around the differential third member housing, so it could be removed as needed to pull the axle shafts, or replace seals or U-joints.
With that done, the new spring hangers were bolted and welded onto the front frame ends, and set of new heavy-duty shackles built for the front springs. (I had ordered new rear shackles from Ford, to use on the front, but they hadn't arrived in time. When they did come, I put them on the rear.)
This done, the axle could be bolted back in place. New U-bolts were used on the front.
Because this was raising it from a 4" to a 9" lift, new, longer, stainless brake lines were added, and a longer front driveshaft, too. The shock absorbers that had been on the rear of the truck, were moved to the front, and new ones put on the rear. The tie rods were changed over to F-350 (solid axle) style ones. The IFS tie rods will hit the underside of springs at full turn when you get much over 8" of lift on these trucks, even with a drop pitman arm.
With the front done, we cut out the rivets that held the forward spring hanger of the rear spring to the frame and enlarged the holes from 12mm (?) to 1/2". Then a piece of 3/8" plate was drilled to match the bolt hole pattern of the shackle on one end, and the frame on the other, to create a drop bracket for the hanger. This done, the hanger was bolted and welded to the plate, and the plate bolted to the frame. Careful measurements were taken to make sure that the drop was exactly 4.5" when it was done.
The rear shackle hanger has a square bolt pattern, so again the rivets were cut out, but instead of making a another drop bracket, it was just flipped over 180 degrees and bolted back in place. This changed it from a tension to a compression setup. I don't see any particular advantage to either one; this was just a cheap way to get lift.
I drove the truck out of the shop at 4 pm on Thursday, picked up my fiancee, and "test-drove" it 700 miles from northern Maine to western New York, where we were married. The truck drove and handled flawlessly.
PART 5: FINE TUNING; THE COST; LONG TERM TESTING
A few weeks later on, it turned out that the rear spring could lock the shackle in the up position, freezing the suspension, so a stop with an adjustable bolt was welded to the frame. It also had turned out during the installation that with that much lift, the rear shocks' tubes hit on the axle tube by the lower mounts, so they were mounted upside down. But what I found out in a few days was that gas shocks did not work upside down, so extensions were welded onto the lower mounts to move the shocks out away from the axle. At this time some minor adjustments were made to the front spring by drilling some new bolt holes in the spring hanger, part of the transmission cross member had to be cut out and lowered so that the front drive shaft would clear it, and a special adjustable bracket was made for the carrier bearing which supports the 2-piece rear driveshaft, which lowered it and moved it back about 2", eliminating the need for a new, longer rear shaft.
Cost:
TTB to Solid Axle & 4.5" lift kit 1350.00
Shocks, U-bolts & brake lines 250.00
Tie rods 450.00 (?)
Driveshaft 170.00
Camber bushings 55.00
Center bearing bracket 100.00
Misc. Stuff (estimated) 150.00+ (paint, brake fluid, nuts&bolts)
Misc. additional labor 275.00
Stuff done later on.
Six-states front drive shaft 285.00 (needed one with 10" travel)
Greasable shackle bolts 70.00
Dual rear shocks & mounts 75.00
38.5" TSL/SX tires & rims (5) 1600.00
14" drop ball mount for trailer hitch 45.00
Front steering stabilizers & mounts 100.00
The conversion was done in September, 1997. As of this writing in February, 1999, I have put over 70,000 hard, fast miles on it, and it has preformed flawlessly. I now have 18" front wheel travel and 16" in the rear on a 9,000 pound work truck!
JonR
This is about converting the original factory TTB IFS into a straight or solid axle, using the original components-- it is NOT about how to swap in a solid axle.
I am seriously considering developing a series of kits to allow anyone with a TTB Ford--Bronco, Bronco II, Explorer, Ranger, F-150, F-250--to modify the existing TTB into a solid or straight axle. If you are interested, please contact me. If you are in Maine, definitely email me!
Return to: Truck Specifications, or Table of Contents
PART ONE: HOW TTB IFS WORKS
When used under a coil spring suspension, with the proper brackets and radius arms, the Ford TTB is a very simple, durable, effective setup, providing a reasonable amount of wheel travel with minor modification, and up to 14-18" of travel with extensive modifications. The only real disadvantage is alignment problems caused by the very sensitive relationship between the spring height and wheel camber angle.
When used under a leaf spring suspension, such as F-250's and some F-350's, achieving any more than about 4" of front wheel travel begins to create serious problems. The front suspension can be separated into 2 parts: the left axle beam and spring, and the right one. Because the spring is firmly bolted to one end of the axle beam, they must move together as one assembly. The other end of the axle beam is bolted to the drop bracket, which allows it to pivot up and down, but prevents any forward and backward movement.
The factory springs are "negative arch" type; in their normal loaded position they appear to be either bent over backwards slightly, with the eyes lower than the middle, or almost flat. The factory bumpstop usually allows the spring to compress no more than 1.75" before it bottoms out. The spring can arch up to allow the axle to droop up to about 5", depending on the spring package in the vehicle. With negative arch springs, when the spring compresses, it gets shorter, moving the axle back a tiny bit; when it droops, it lengthens, moving the axle forward a bit. Because of the limited travel in the springs, this forward / back movement creates no problems, with the bushing in the drop bracket able to absorb this. During these up and down movements, the axle beam also pivots around the drop bracket in a slight "( " shaped arc, and the more it moves up and down, the more curve in that arc. If one stood under the driver's side of the vehicle and watched the spring and axle move from full compression to full droop, the tire would start at the top of the "( " and move down around the curve to the left, past the middle, and end up at the bottom. In stock suspensions, the length of this arc is about 6"; the amount of bow or curve in the arc is barely more than 1/16". This is with the normal amount of travel.
PART 2: TTB'S LIMITATIONS
When a lift kit is installed, the new springs are positive arch, and are almost always more flexible than the original ones, and unless one lowers the bump stops to reduce the uptravel/compression, and installs limiting straps to reduce the downtravel/extension, problems develop at the spring shackle. The heavier the truck, the more the spring can compress, so diesels, big blocks, winches, snowplows, jumps, etc. all increase the spring's movement. This increased movement increases the amount of curve in the arc. With 12" of travel, this curve increases from 1/16" to over 1/2". During this movement through the arc, the front spring shackle is not only moving backward and forward 2-3" as the spring's length changes, but it also being twisted over 1" from side to side at the same time. The bolt in the shackle's upper bushing, around which it pivots, allows unlimited forward/backward movement. But the only way the shackle can move side to side is by compressing the bushing itself. This bushing is hidden inside the front frame rail, and is about 1½" in diameter, and 1½" wide. The shackle itself is 4½" long from eye to eye. For the shackle to move ½" to either side, this upper bushing gets compressed to almost nothing, and will promptly be crushed or torn out of the shackle eye.
If one's truck weighs 6,500 lbs., it will have some 3,500 lbs. on the front axle; each spring has ½ this load, and each spring bushing ½ of that. This puts 875 lbs. on that 1½" diameter bushing, and when the axle pivots, the leverage multiplies that several times over. Not only will the bushing's sleeve and bolt be crushed against the eye, but if the suspension travel is continues, the shackle itself will begin to bend, and then either the shackle or the spring eye bolt will break. When this happens, the frame ends up resting on the end of the spring. If the bolt in either the rear spring eye or the drop bracket were to break at this time, the whole front axle and spring would tear itself out from under the truck.
About 4 months after installing a 4" suspension lift in the truck, I began to notice a pull in the steering, and a clanking in the front end. This was caused by the original rubber bushings being crushed. I replaced them with polyurethane bushings from Skyjacker, and all was well for about a year. Then the left front shackle broke in two at the neck. I bought 2 from a salvage yard, and noticed that even on the stock donor truck, the bushings were showing signs of being crushed. I put in the left shackle with new bushings, and a month later the right one cracked at the spring eye bolt. It was also replaced, just in time for the bolt in the left spring eye to break. I replaced the metric 8.8 bolt with an SAE grade 8, only to have the shackle break again. That was way too much. Replacing failed parts with the same parts leads only to more failed parts. Needless to say, with all these shackle problems, the truck was also having some severe front end alignment troubles as well.
PART 3: BRAINSTORMING THE SOLUTION
I then spent the next month laying under the truck with various rulers, tape measures, protractors and strings, studying how the IFS worked and what was going wrong. (If it had been a coil spring suspension, with no shackle, there never would have been this problem in the first place.) As I lay there in the dirt, beside a gravel road in Maine over 100 miles from the nearest town, a bizarre plan began to form in my mind. It was possible to do a shackle reversal (moving the shackle from the front to the rear end of the spring); it was also possible to weld the two separate axle beam halves together to make a solid axle, and eliminate the shackle twisting. Furthermore, it was even possible to get 3-6" more lift at the same time, with relatively little extra cost.
(On a solid axle, when the springs compress and droop the shackle only moves forward and backward; the only time it can twist side to side is when one tire is a being pushed up into the wheel well, and the other side is drooping down. In normal driving, 99.99% of the movement is front/back only. And because the solid axle is twice as long as the IFS axle beam, the curve in the arc is half as much for a given amount of travel.)
Then I began putting different designs down on paper, with each one becoming simpler than the preceding one, until I had one that I knew would work. It consisted of building 2 box-like spring mounts (Spring Hanger 1, Spring Hanger 2) on the front frame ends, and tying them together with a cross brace. This would be the for the front spring mount; for the rear of the front spring, I would simply put a shackle, identical to what was used on the rear of the truck, in the existing spring hanger. This gave 4-5" of lift, and the shackle reversal. The axle beams would be removed from the truck, boxed in and gusseted to create a solid axle, and reinstalled minus the drop brackets. On the rear of the truck, the forward hanger on the rear spring could be lowered with a piece of flat steel plate, and the shackle bracket on the rear of the spring could be turned upside down, changing it from a tension to a compression style shackle. Wow!
It took several more weeks to get to all this down on paper, so I could take the designs to a machine shop.
Not only is this truck the only vehicle I own, but I also make my living with it, so this had to be done in no more than 3 days, start to finish.
I scheduled the time with the machine shop about 2 weeks in advance; they had done custom work for me before, and were even willing to let me come in and work with them on this project. Cool!
PART 4: DOING IT TO IT--CROSSING THE POINT OF NO RETURN
(These photos were taken about a year and a half after the conversion was done, and everything is covered with road salt, rust and sand from a New England winter. However, because they were taken in bright daylight with snow underneath, they are the clearest photos I have been able to get to date.)
We rolled the truck into the shop on a Tuesday morning, and began by jacking the truck up to get it supported by the frame. Next the entire front end was removed: tires, tie rods, axle beams, springs, shackles & drop brackets. The axle beams were set up on a welding table, and Skyjacker adjustable camber bushings were installed, setting them to their middle position. Next we took some lengths of angle iron, and tack welded the axle beams into position on the table, the two critical things being the proper width between the spring pads/mounting holes, and having the pads perfectly level and in line with each other. With the axle beams in place and everything checked, rechecked, and triple checked for alignment and accuracy, the welding began. A 6" wide piece of 1/2" thick flat stock was bent to lay on top of the axle, going all the way across and over the differential hump. On top of this, were put two strips of 1/2 x 2" flat for extra stiffeners. Then pieces were cut to box in the front and rear of the beams, tying them into the piece on top. Some clearance was left on the back around the differential third member housing, so it could be removed as needed to pull the axle shafts, or replace seals or U-joints.
With that done, the new spring hangers were bolted and welded onto the front frame ends, and set of new heavy-duty shackles built for the front springs. (I had ordered new rear shackles from Ford, to use on the front, but they hadn't arrived in time. When they did come, I put them on the rear.)
This done, the axle could be bolted back in place. New U-bolts were used on the front.
Because this was raising it from a 4" to a 9" lift, new, longer, stainless brake lines were added, and a longer front driveshaft, too. The shock absorbers that had been on the rear of the truck, were moved to the front, and new ones put on the rear. The tie rods were changed over to F-350 (solid axle) style ones. The IFS tie rods will hit the underside of springs at full turn when you get much over 8" of lift on these trucks, even with a drop pitman arm.
With the front done, we cut out the rivets that held the forward spring hanger of the rear spring to the frame and enlarged the holes from 12mm (?) to 1/2". Then a piece of 3/8" plate was drilled to match the bolt hole pattern of the shackle on one end, and the frame on the other, to create a drop bracket for the hanger. This done, the hanger was bolted and welded to the plate, and the plate bolted to the frame. Careful measurements were taken to make sure that the drop was exactly 4.5" when it was done.
The rear shackle hanger has a square bolt pattern, so again the rivets were cut out, but instead of making a another drop bracket, it was just flipped over 180 degrees and bolted back in place. This changed it from a tension to a compression setup. I don't see any particular advantage to either one; this was just a cheap way to get lift.
I drove the truck out of the shop at 4 pm on Thursday, picked up my fiancee, and "test-drove" it 700 miles from northern Maine to western New York, where we were married. The truck drove and handled flawlessly.
PART 5: FINE TUNING; THE COST; LONG TERM TESTING
A few weeks later on, it turned out that the rear spring could lock the shackle in the up position, freezing the suspension, so a stop with an adjustable bolt was welded to the frame. It also had turned out during the installation that with that much lift, the rear shocks' tubes hit on the axle tube by the lower mounts, so they were mounted upside down. But what I found out in a few days was that gas shocks did not work upside down, so extensions were welded onto the lower mounts to move the shocks out away from the axle. At this time some minor adjustments were made to the front spring by drilling some new bolt holes in the spring hanger, part of the transmission cross member had to be cut out and lowered so that the front drive shaft would clear it, and a special adjustable bracket was made for the carrier bearing which supports the 2-piece rear driveshaft, which lowered it and moved it back about 2", eliminating the need for a new, longer rear shaft.
Cost:
TTB to Solid Axle & 4.5" lift kit 1350.00
Shocks, U-bolts & brake lines 250.00
Tie rods 450.00 (?)
Driveshaft 170.00
Camber bushings 55.00
Center bearing bracket 100.00
Misc. Stuff (estimated) 150.00+ (paint, brake fluid, nuts&bolts)
Misc. additional labor 275.00
Stuff done later on.
Six-states front drive shaft 285.00 (needed one with 10" travel)
Greasable shackle bolts 70.00
Dual rear shocks & mounts 75.00
38.5" TSL/SX tires & rims (5) 1600.00
14" drop ball mount for trailer hitch 45.00
Front steering stabilizers & mounts 100.00
The conversion was done in September, 1997. As of this writing in February, 1999, I have put over 70,000 hard, fast miles on it, and it has preformed flawlessly. I now have 18" front wheel travel and 16" in the rear on a 9,000 pound work truck!
JonR
k_williams1982
'01 Excursion 4x4
I think that I'm going to research that a little more and see about doing that with my truck to get rid of the IFS under the front. I'm having a problem with my turning on the IFS. I can turn fully to the left with no problems, but when I turn it all the right the tire "catches" on the leaf springs.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Check your stopper bolts if you have them - my 2wd TTB ain't got such, but my old D44 solid had them, and I did have to adjust them to stop my 35s from catching on the radius arms at full lock.
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Didn't Ziggster do one and do a pretty good write up on it on TDS? Someone else did one there as well.
Cat_Rebel
Does not compute
I'm calling Jon at Swamps tomorrow to talk to him about it. I know I need to do something before the snow starts flying, I don't want to deal with a bad bushing over the winter.
Pic off their site are here.....http://www.swampsdiesel.com/content/projects/TTB_Conversion/
Pic off their site are here.....http://www.swampsdiesel.com/content/projects/TTB_Conversion/
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Funny, that's just the stuff I posted, but I took it from a different place.
jon is "swamp donkey" all he did was close down his personal site and morphed the info into what you see there.
iirc he went to rockewells robbed off a duce
check out Zigg/ziggster40 and his info too. he did it to his Supercab.
k_williams1982
'01 Excursion 4x4
I don't see any stopper bolts. I'm thinking about putting some sort of a "spacer" between the rim and the hub so that it sets the tires out a little more.
