dyoung14
Is getting worn out
What would i have to do to run veggy oil?
VEGGY OIL QUESTION
- Thread starter dyoung14
- Start date
smolkin
Stuck inside Mobile
Deep Thoughts, by smolkin:
Filter the oil, then heat it to around 180F (optimally). There are many ways to go about that and different setups work better for some...I'm still getting the bugs out of mine.
WVO is ******* your motor even filtered and heated. You have to replace fuel lines with 30R9 and IPs and inj's won't last as long. You also have to ask yourself if it's all worth it, b/c when I look at the time and money I have in this, I could've bought a bio processor like my friend has. And 2 years into this quest, I'm starting to lean towards bio, too. I'm burning 20 gals I just got from him right now, I'm really liking it. After looking at his $1200 processor, I am confidant I can build a replica for about $500 in materials. Factor in chemicals- $150 for a methanol drum that will make about 300 gal of bio + NaOH = about $.50/gal for bio.
So: spend a little $ now and a lot later on parts breaking more with WVO; or spend more $ initially for a processor and chemicals for a fuel that won't make your truck break and requires less mods.
Filter the oil, then heat it to around 180F (optimally). There are many ways to go about that and different setups work better for some...I'm still getting the bugs out of mine.
WVO is ******* your motor even filtered and heated. You have to replace fuel lines with 30R9 and IPs and inj's won't last as long. You also have to ask yourself if it's all worth it, b/c when I look at the time and money I have in this, I could've bought a bio processor like my friend has. And 2 years into this quest, I'm starting to lean towards bio, too. I'm burning 20 gals I just got from him right now, I'm really liking it. After looking at his $1200 processor, I am confidant I can build a replica for about $500 in materials. Factor in chemicals- $150 for a methanol drum that will make about 300 gal of bio + NaOH = about $.50/gal for bio.
So: spend a little $ now and a lot later on parts breaking more with WVO; or spend more $ initially for a processor and chemicals for a fuel that won't make your truck break and requires less mods.
WrickM
Full Access Member
smolkin
Stuck inside Mobile
Well, I've had to replace every rubber fuel line and half my olives, and that was on heated veg. I know my truck is old, but the IP governor came apart too, so that was a new IP. I've gone through 10 fuel filters in 2 years. Just yesterday I had to replace a 1-yr-old line of 30R7 that the veg ate (the one from steel line-->fuel pump); I used 30R9 this time. Both of my fuel senders quit working about 3 months after going on veg.
You can attribute some of my trouble to the age of my truck, but I really think the veg didn't help. Don't get me wrong, I still burn veg, but I'm getting away from it as soon as I get a bio processor of my own set up.
This is just my personal experience, I really do hope others here have had it better.
You can attribute some of my trouble to the age of my truck, but I really think the veg didn't help. Don't get me wrong, I still burn veg, but I'm getting away from it as soon as I get a bio processor of my own set up.
This is just my personal experience, I really do hope others here have had it better.
Cincinnati Guy
Registered User
Filter, filter filter. If you are going to run the wvo straight it needs to be heated somehow. You can also mix it in your diesel fuel(Which is what I do) and it will not need to be heated. Make sure you filter down to at least 5 microns before using. You can get sock filters cheap through mcmaster carr. You do not have to do anything to your truck, only add the heat if your running it straight.
If you run it straight you also need to use both tanks one with regular diesel and the other with wvo, as you will start with diesel and shut it off using diesel.
If you run it straight you also need to use both tanks one with regular diesel and the other with wvo, as you will start with diesel and shut it off using diesel.
dyoung14
Is getting worn out
i may play around and mix some in,
WrickM
Full Access Member
mixing works but i am just not a huge fan. no matter how you look at it it does thinken your diesel considerably. just be cautious ESPECIALLY when the temps drop even a littel. have fun though!
Cincinnati Guy
Registered User
I agree, I have no experiences yet running wvo in colder temperatures. Im sure if you did use a heater you would have no problem though.
Dsl_Dog_Treat
I lost my face to the jaws of a poodle
Filtering is the key to clean healthy fuel system. I've mixed up to 75% veggie with no heating needed at temps above 70 degrees. It just takes a little trial and error to find the right mixes pending the wather temps. Temps that get below 50 degrees I tend to use less that a 50/50 mix. Below 40. nope. Straight diesel.
Been running it religiously for the past 3 years and only change the filter once a year per no. No ill effects or mechanical failures have been had.
Been running it religiously for the past 3 years and only change the filter once a year per no. No ill effects or mechanical failures have been had.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
I'm not going to trash SVO/WVO systems as we're both after teh same goal...run a little bit cleaner fuel and not be dependent on the system so much for our transportation. Biodiesel will eat your rubber fuel hose every bit as much if not more than heated SVO, they'll both do it way more than the old "dirty diesel" the never pump diesel might have a lot of the same characteristics as regards eating hoses/seals etc. I've never had a DB2 IP apart but I can't imagine it still has natural or butyl rubber seals, or else those of us who run B100 would be replacing them every year or more often as that is how long B100 takes to eat that kind of rubber under the best of circumstances. If you do SVO/WVO right it will work well, you can't screw up at all though like for instance, your best bet is to isolate your return lines such that veggie oil is only ever returned to your veggie tank and diesel is only ever returned to your diesel tank. Also I hear rumors that hot veggie oil has some sort of reaction with steel tanks and in my biodiesel waste oil storage tank I have seen signs of crap building up in the tank, better would be to get a huge bronco poly tank for your SVO and retain one stock tank for diesel or bio. Also swap out your fuel tank selector valve for some manual valves. Having said that if you filter it well and are strict about starting and stopping on diesel you probably won't have any problems, and if your truck sees a lot of highway miles and is worked hard you're even less likely to have problems. The other thing is you really need to get very good oil for a SVO system. I'd like to see it titrate to 2.0ml/L with NaOH titrant or better and also keep water and trash contaminants to a minimum. I will often accept really ugly stuff for my biodiesel project. Smolkin, if you want to do biodiesel I could probably design, build and deliver an Appleseed processor for not much more than 500, and since you like to do things yourself and the plans are all there on the 'net open source you could probably do it for even less than that, and of course it gets very cheap if you can salvage and repair an old hot water heater and don't have to buy a new one. I would suggest spending a few more bucks and avoiding the harbor freight and NT clear water pumps. I really like my Italian made clear water pump that cost a little more but has over temperature protection and so forth, stuff you'd have to build yourself for a NT or HF pump. That said those do work great until you fry a capacitor or lock a rotor.
jasco
Full Access Member
I would recommend a two tank system. A heated tank for WVO and the normal tank for diesel. That is what i run and I have very few problems. Start up on Diesel to get everything hot and then switch to veggie. Purge the lines with diesel before shut down and everything will run smoothly.
I'm guessing that smolkin was using stock tanks for his system. When veg oil is coated on a surface it becomes very tacky. That is probably why the senders quite working, they just got gummed up.
There are also certain materials that you want to keep away from veg such as copper and steel. The will accelerate polymerization of the oil which will then start to clog things up.
I also run a separate filter for diesel and veg. That way if the veg filter clogs I just flip to diesel until I decide to change it.
You can run without redundant fuel systems, but your maintenance and risk may be higher.
I designed my system to put a lot of heat into the oil. Hot Fox in the tank, heat exchanger before the filter (i feel this helps extend filter life by raising temp during filtration), heated filter head, insulated lines, and electric heater right before the IP.
Matt
I'm guessing that smolkin was using stock tanks for his system. When veg oil is coated on a surface it becomes very tacky. That is probably why the senders quite working, they just got gummed up.
There are also certain materials that you want to keep away from veg such as copper and steel. The will accelerate polymerization of the oil which will then start to clog things up.
I also run a separate filter for diesel and veg. That way if the veg filter clogs I just flip to diesel until I decide to change it.
You can run without redundant fuel systems, but your maintenance and risk may be higher.
I designed my system to put a lot of heat into the oil. Hot Fox in the tank, heat exchanger before the filter (i feel this helps extend filter life by raising temp during filtration), heated filter head, insulated lines, and electric heater right before the IP.
Matt
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
This man knows SVO systems and it sounds like WrickM does too. I just went biodiesel cause I wanted to do something different than petroleum based, and it's a turnkey solution. It has it's own tangle of problems and isn't perfect. I do a heck of a lot of short trips, starts and stops, so I'd be running on D2 or biodiesel all the time anyway.
jasco
Full Access Member
I thought about biodiesel, but there were some reasons I didn't go that route. I think either is a good option. A good biodiesel processor would have been about the same cost as what I spent on my veg system.
My conversion is on an RV and the average non-stop commute is 400-500 miles with short stops to *** and refill the veg tank (I'm also always pulling a trailer so I have plenty of room for extra veg). Therefore, I only have to worry about switch over at the beginning of the drive and when I get to the final destination. Everything is manual control with switches, I could have gotten auto control, but for 10-12 trips per year the cost wasn't worth it. I can remember to flip some switches.
I didn't have a space that I felt comfortable putting the biodiesel processor and all associated chemicals in. I'm a chemist so the chemicals don't scare me, but the potential fire hazard in my basement garage did.
The ongoing cost of filters is much less than having to buy chemicals all of the time.
The waste generated from my vegoil filtration is about 1 gallon for every 100 gallons processed. I think you may get like 10 gallons of waste for ever 100 gallons of biodiesel Some one can correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but I know the waste would be significantly more.
The effort in filtration for me is pretty minimal as opposed to making biodiesel.
Running veg didn't require upgrading the fuel system. I didn't need to replace all of the rubber lines and rubber seals. I just ran the veg lines and taped into the stock system as necessary.
These were the reasons I choose to run veg instead of biodiesel. There are pros and cons to both, you just have to decide for yourself what is most important to you.
No matter what you will always have the task of collecting oil. I've been pretty lucky and get about 20 gallons a week from a single source and that is my soul source. I pick up once every two weeks and I'm done with it. If you can only find places that have 5 gallons a week or you drive a bunch you are going to be spending a lot of time driving around collecting oil from multiple sites.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. I've replaced the dollar cost of fuel with some cost to my personal time and convenience. It is always a trade-off, but well worth it for me.
Matt
My conversion is on an RV and the average non-stop commute is 400-500 miles with short stops to *** and refill the veg tank (I'm also always pulling a trailer so I have plenty of room for extra veg). Therefore, I only have to worry about switch over at the beginning of the drive and when I get to the final destination. Everything is manual control with switches, I could have gotten auto control, but for 10-12 trips per year the cost wasn't worth it. I can remember to flip some switches.
I didn't have a space that I felt comfortable putting the biodiesel processor and all associated chemicals in. I'm a chemist so the chemicals don't scare me, but the potential fire hazard in my basement garage did.
The ongoing cost of filters is much less than having to buy chemicals all of the time.
The waste generated from my vegoil filtration is about 1 gallon for every 100 gallons processed. I think you may get like 10 gallons of waste for ever 100 gallons of biodiesel Some one can correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but I know the waste would be significantly more.
The effort in filtration for me is pretty minimal as opposed to making biodiesel.
Running veg didn't require upgrading the fuel system. I didn't need to replace all of the rubber lines and rubber seals. I just ran the veg lines and taped into the stock system as necessary.
These were the reasons I choose to run veg instead of biodiesel. There are pros and cons to both, you just have to decide for yourself what is most important to you.
No matter what you will always have the task of collecting oil. I've been pretty lucky and get about 20 gallons a week from a single source and that is my soul source. I pick up once every two weeks and I'm done with it. If you can only find places that have 5 gallons a week or you drive a bunch you are going to be spending a lot of time driving around collecting oil from multiple sites.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. I've replaced the dollar cost of fuel with some cost to my personal time and convenience. It is always a trade-off, but well worth it for me.
Matt
