Tires: Bias/steel side wall/radial/steer/traction/all terrain/etc?

[RedTruck]

Hello fellows,

I'm in the market for some tires and I have a few questions. The vehicle in question is a 2wd 1 ton van. On everything I have ever owned except medium to heavy trucks have had the same tires on all fours for purposes of rotation. My questions as follows:

1. What are the benefits of steer tires up front on a light duty vehicle (I consider up to 1.5 ton)?
2. Is there any disadvantages to running all terrain tires on all 4 (or dually) in a 2wd application?
3. I know the old addage about bias ply tires not flexing. Does that hold true to what's on the market currently?
4. Given two tires bought for the same purpose, will bias tires outlast radials?
5. Is there a place for bias ply tires used all season on a vehicle that will be driven by people not used to bias tires?
6. Do steel belted sidewalls handle the same as bias ply tires?
7. Do they hold up like bias tires do?
8. How do bias tires handle on ice?
9. How do steel belted side walls handle on ice?
10. What is your recommendation for an all terrain tire 235/75R16 for a 2wd application?
11. How do you properly inflate dually tires (this one a little off topic but I know they aren't supposed to be the same)?
12. Any other information related to this that could be helpful?

I'm hoping some of the old bones of the group chime in Rob, Midnight Rider, CameroGenius, OMB...you fellows that have a few miles on haulers and strong opinions on tires.

Thanks much for your time and comments.

Paul

 

[Greg5OH]

bias ply is old school. and junk. I dont think they even make bias plys still? I think all they are good for is ofroading. Feels like your on black ice when on bias plys.

 

[redneckaggie]

I will only run bias on my trailors. I do not know much about them on trucks. 2wd is fine to have different sized tires in front vs back but not 4wd. Why wouldnt you inflate duals to the same psi. I have always done it.

 

[RedTruck]

Thank you for your response, Greg50H.

My mission for this thread is hard cold facts from people that have used the tires and know how they work. I once pulled a swather mover from the weeds after sitting 30 years. The tread came completely off and I was going down the road running on the core under load...bias tires are not junk. Everything has a purpose.

Please facts and real life experience.

Thanks much, Paul

 

[towcat]

paul-
not all 235/85/16 "E" tire is built the same. If you are going to carry weight, my suggestion is the bridgestone duravis R250. it's a heavy commercial tire sized down to 16". even then it's a 62lb steel casing monster. the cost will set you on your ass though. My buy-in price is already at $215ea. still, every person who have bought this tire from me, raves about how stable their overloaded camper feels with these tires. my F450 carrier goes down the road with the same tire loaded to 18k frequently. still, very stable.
I've run bias for years on my older towtrucks and have no complaints overall. only bad thing is they tend to be a little "square" when sitting for some time, but once warmed up, the thumping goes away.

 

[8ball]

The tire world has changed drastically in the past 10 years. My best friend owns a tire/lube shop. Bias are a thing of the past except for some trailer applications and huge mud tires. Their one main benefit (cost) has disappeared since production quantity is so low. Tires are cheaper when made in large quantities. You know the tire world has changed when a 33x12.50R15 is no longer kept on hand and has to be ordered in.

 

[RLDSL]

If I could GET bias tires around here to fit my truck without having to mail order, I'd be running them in a heart beat. Steel belt radials just plain scare me.

Back when I had my semi truck, I ended up switching over to all bias ply tires after all my overpriced radials crapped out. And they kept crapping out in about the same place, out in the severe heat when loaded heavy around the four corners area. After about the 3rd or fourth time in this little tire shop out there, the owner came out and tole me, well, you're a regular now, so I'm not going to sell you anymore of those overpriced crap radials, and he rolls out an old rag ( bias ply ) with about half the tread on it, and tells me it would outlast every other tire on the truck..... It did I ended up replacing all of them with bias and did the same on a 1 ton van and a few other trucks.

All my cars run NON steel belted radials, they are all european bis ply radials... no steel. Much safer. Most all of teh high speed tires run on the autobahn are non steel belted tires, they simply are not safe at high speeds, in fact the US highway safety dept has known about this for decades. I used to have a copy of a report ( that I got from a retired bigwiig from the SAE ) that had been sent out to all of the law enforcement agencies in the country, advising them nit to purchase radial tires for their vehicles, as they had this nasty habit of exploding for no reason at speeds over 45 mph, but the report was not released to the public, because Michilin had completely retooled for radials ONLY and had put all of their eggs into that basket and would have gone broke, so the gvmnt kept it quiet at the expense of our safety

As far as running mud treads on teh back of a dually, go for it. I run four mudders on teh back and steer tires on teh front That combination with a good set of clutches in the posi makes for a basically instoppable truck. With highway treads all around, it would get squirrily real easily

 

[RedTruck]

Why wouldnt you inflate duals to the same psi. I have always done it.

I once read that the inside and outside wheel needed to have different pressure. I believe it has something to do with the inside wheel temperature being different and it also riding on the crown. Looking at Michelins site this morning though, they recommend they are the same. Wondering if anyone else has heard differently.

Thanks, Incidentally my folks just drove through Stephansville and ate at the hard 8 for the first time...good stuff!

paul-
not all 235/85/16 "E" tire is built the same. If you are going to carry weight, my suggestion is the bridgestone duravis R250.

Thanks Calvin,

I checked that out. Good looking tire and it looks like at least some of them are produced in the US. It looks like the Duravis R500HD would be the comperable traction tire? There are a few reviews on TireRack for the 500 that are all good. I'll definately look into that one.

Thanks again,

The tire world has changed drastically in the past 10 years. My best friend owns a tire/lube shop. Bias are a thing of the past except for some trailer applications and huge mud tires. Their one main benefit (cost) has disappeared since production quantity is so low. Tires are cheaper when made in large quantities. You know the tire world has changed when a 33x12.50R15 is no longer kept on hand and has to be ordered in.

I hear ya there. Thanks for your reply.

All my cars run NON steel belted radials, they are all european bis ply radials... no steel.

Thanks Rob,

I'll have to do some checking on the european tires. Are thos available to you locally? I did call this place about a year ago: Straus, but they can't deal direct and it seemed like they were tough to get.
I have a good friend that has done business here: Miller Tire/, they come to a local swap meet every year and you can place your order ahead of time for free shipping. For the reasons you talk about I would like to run Bias tires as well...I wish someone made a good all terrain, but it seems like there isn't a market for them.

On a side note do you have a suggestion for tire chains? Last set I had were used and older than the hills, but they held up good. I've had a few friends get them locally and they have had problems with them breaking.

Thanks again,

Paul

 

[firehawk]

All my cars run NON steel belted radials, they are all european bis ply radials... no steel. Much safer.

I seriously doubt that. If your tire has a "r" next to the size, it is a radial, not bias. All speed rated tires are radial. I don't even know if a bias has ever been made in the last 20 years that was rated for high speeds. All my cars have "W" speed ratings and all my vehicles use radials.

 

[Greg5OH]

^thats what im thinking too, when im back from vacation im going to crack open my race car vehicle dyanamics book and read up on the tires again. bias ply is no good for high speed stability because of how the cross tread pattern of the carcass, allowing the tire to flex in multiple directions-great for offroad!, also at high speed the cores tend to delaminate due to the heat created by the layers flexing and rubbing against eachother-tire literaly falls apart. steel belted radial-which every single tire on every single new vehicle in the past..minimum 10 years ive seen is steel belted. the steel cores are impregnated withon the rubber so they do not come apart. only time you have a blowout is when they are underinflated and heat up excessively.
every single big rig tire is also a radial-they last what..250 thousand kilometers? (and then recapped..?)

 

[8ball]

I kinda doubt bias ply tires are high speed tires, given the info below. It comes from the Goodyear Europe website.

"Here is a list of rating indicators and their speed equivalents. Unmarked radial tires are allowed up to a speed of 110 km/h (68 mph). Bias ply tires are confined to 100 km/h (62 mph). Retreaded tires can be run up to a maximum speed of 110 km/h (68 mph), unless they are marked otherwise."

 

[Dieselcrawler]

We run the duravis tires on our mini busses at work. Survive well to dumb drivers

 

[RLDSL]

AH, when are the americans going to realize that WE dont know EVERYTHING. news flash folks. We are so far behind the rest of the world it's not even funny, WE've been sucking hind *** on technology for quite some time. Ive got those nice fabric bias ply radials on all of my cars The only steel that you'll find on those things in a single cable around the rim on each side for retention. As far as speed, lets see the Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 set the world ICE ( not land, bit ice) speed record last year at a tad over 206 mph. These are not some super fancy racing tires, these are the same snow tires that I have on my wife's car ( Ive personally run ours at around 80-90 in our Volvo and they track like glue.. Its a blast cruising past the cop with the radar gun at 70 during an ice storm while everyone is going in the ditch and seeing the look on the guys face they have gone so far as to make the things primarily out of canola oil instead of the usual petrolium synthetic rubber. Initially to keep them flexable in sub zero temps , but also to make them more environmentaly sustainable, to kill two birds with one stone That company also make s summer tures for going REALLY fast, and they arent the only ones producing tires like that. While they do make tires with steel belts in them, those are limited for use on log skidders and loaders and the like where severe puncture resistance is the main goal, as there is a huge logging industry in scandanavia and northern europe

One thing you must ALWAYS remember, whoever wins the war, gets to write the history books! Same goes for industrial wars. When the steel radial technology won out, ALL of the propoganda currently spread in this country favours the winner so everything you read will favour steel radial technology That doesnt make it true, it just makes it popular. Remember the flat earth theory???

I have NEVER had a bias tire come apart on me , they have always come to a graceful death of worn tread( or been regrooved , then worn out, or capped after being grooved , then thrown on the trailer, THEN worn out ..., but I simply cannot count the number of steel radial tires that I've had throw treads just like an old worn out badly done recap, some of them were brand new when it happened, and they were NEVER underinflated Had one on a trip a couple years ago where I had just had teh blamed thing put on in eastern Iowa and crossing the mississippi river, there goes a tread rolling past my door that looked mighty familiar. Brand new stinking tire and I checked the date code on it befoer it went one, it was fine THat never would have happened with a bias ply and I was none too happy about having to change a tire out there on teh side of teh interstate with almost zero shoulder
I could put a set of those good tires on the truck, but the shipping on those heavy things would break me and they arent cheap to begin with in that size for 6, but it would sure handle nice

 

[Greg5OH]

thanks for the reply rldsl, looks like ill be doiing my own independant research into these nokians and other modern bias plies!

 

[GENIUSLOERTS]

Hey RLDSL,

I just did some looking and there is a nokian dealer just north west of use in Dexter, MO