Scored a 5.9 with a hole in it.

[Classicfordguy]

Well I watched this engine for 2 months on craigslist listed as a cummINGs engine. Finally went and bought it for $500. Supposedly it only had 150k on it but that could be complete crap. Either way its supposed to be a 95 with a p pump.

There is a giant hole in the pass side of the block, looks like it threw the back rod.

My hope is to build up a good 12 valve to swap into the 94 f250 in my sig. I'm very new to cummins engines, is there anything you guys can tell me about it, good deal, bad deal? Is the 95 a good year or were 96-98 better?

My line of thinking now is maybe I can find a good block and use some of the parts off this thing to build up a fresh powerful motor for my truck in the future. Tell me what you guys think, good idea or complete crap?

Thanks,

-Rob

 

[averagef250]

I think you did fine for the accesories and turbo on the engine.

The downside is why did it throw a rod? These engines have an extremely stout lower end. The crank bearings typically don't show wear under heavy pickup use and poor maintenance until 500K+ miles. In medium duty 26K pound chassis use where the engine is at constant 100% load the bearings will typically show wear around 150K-200K.

The reason why it threw a rod is important because if it was very poor maintenance or running a fram oil filter that caused it there's a very good chance the P7100 pump is junk as well. The P7100's are directly effected by oil quality since they are oil pressure lubed and more sensitive than the lower end bearings in the engine. A P7100 with a banged up cam is not usually worth rebuilding unless it's a 215 pump.

If you tear it down and find something silly like one of the rod cap bolts laying in the pan (seen this before) then you might assume this was just an engine that was assembled late on a Friday and someone didn't torque it right, though 150K is a long time to go for something like that.

Odds are pretty good that when the rod went it hit the cam and the block has a hole so it's not good for much considering how cheap these are today.

In my eyes you've got a power steering/vacuum pump, turbo, exhaust manifold, head and a P7100 with all the parts to mate one to a non-p7100 engine. Lets say you find a 98-2002 24V with a bad VP44 for under a grand you might pick it up and put the P-pump on it for the cost of custom injection lines ($400) and have a pretty potent setup. Otherwise buying a good 12 valve in the $1000-$1500 range may be the cheapest route to get a solid running engine.

You don't need to do much to one of these to get great power from them. There's no need whatsoever to "build one up" to get 350+ HP from one. Regardless of miles, if the engine doesn't have blowby I replace the head and upper end gaskets and do a valve job with a mild port job and take a clean up skim cut off the head deck just so I know I'm starting with a good head gasket and sealing valves. Check the cam lobes for pitting if the engine had poor oil changes, adjust the valves correctly, advance the pump timing, install a 3-4K GSK, grind your fuel plate to a conservative profile to start (you can always go more), upgrade the HX35 to a 14 or 16CM exhaust housing, run 330HP marine nozzles for good clean power for heavy towing or go to 370HP nozzles if you like your truck to smoke and annoy people, a 4" mandrel exhaust system, the biggest IC you can fit with mandrel 3" plumbing, a 195 thermostat and you're done.

IMHO, as far as Cummins swaps into Ford and GM products go the transmission choice and build is more in depth and costly than the engine. If you want an auto plan to spend 2-3 times on the project than a stick. If you want an NV4500 (that holds up) plan to spend double what using a ZF will run you.

 

[ameristar1]

Find a non "53" numbered block, there is an article on the site that deals with them, and do a buildup on that. The article will show what years the troublesome blocks were produced and what in. If you are not trying to get a gazillion hp out of the thing, just using stock replacement parts, carefully assembled would be just fine. The key to the whole game is the fact that you have a P Pump and that is where the power is. Do the KDP fix (Killer Dowel Pin; falls into the gear train and bang, lots of damage $$$$$$$, there's an article on that also), and with minor fuel pump mods and a good set of injectors, you can make as much power as you want. Upgrade the head gasket, put in some ARP fasteners for safety sake and have fun.
I'll throw a combo out just to get you started: freshened up longblock (non 53 casting), KDP fix, make sure block and head decks are perfectly flat, ARP bolts and studs (the highest spec available), high perf head gasket (spend the $$$, you won't regret it), stiffer valvesprings, barrier coat the pistons (thermal and dryfilm); TST power plate (call for recommendation or look on this site for opinions and feed back on the various numbers/settings that have been used), high rpm governor spring set (you've gone this far, put the 4200 rpm set in), a set of delivery valves, a set of high flow injectors (you can get the ones you have Extrude Honed for 33.00 a piece depending on how far you go with it, prices are higher for ridiculous flow rates), then top it off with a higher flowing single turbo, or add another turbo to the existing one you have (that HX35 is not bad) for a compound system. You are going to need a lot of air to burn up the fuel increase; then tune, tune, tune!
Warning! This combo will wreck any weak point in the drivetrain, produce tons of torque and a huge smile on your face! Side effects include burning rubber, coal black smoke on demand and the ability to tow anything at over 100mph. Discontinue use after twisting frame into pretzel or scaring passengers to death.

 

[ameristar1]

I think you did fine for the accesories and turbo on the engine.

The downside is why did it throw a rod? These engines have an extremely stout lower end. The crank bearings typically don't show wear under heavy pickup use and poor maintenance until 500K+ miles. In medium duty 26K pound chassis use where the engine is at constant 100% load the bearings will typically show wear around 150K-200K.

The reason why it threw a rod is important because if it was very poor maintenance or running a fram oil filter that caused it there's a very good chance the P7100 pump is junk as well. The P7100's are directly effected by oil quality since they are oil pressure lubed and more sensitive than the lower end bearings in the engine. A P7100 with a banged up cam is not usually worth rebuilding unless it's a 215 pump.

If you tear it down and find something silly like one of the rod cap bolts laying in the pan (seen this before) then you might assume this was just an engine that was assembled late on a Friday and someone didn't torque it right, though 150K is a long time to go for something like that.

Odds are pretty good that when the rod went it hit the cam and the block has a hole so it's not good for much considering how cheap these are today.

In my eyes you've got a power steering/vacuum pump, turbo, exhaust manifold, head and a P7100 with all the parts to mate one to a non-p7100 engine. Lets say you find a 98-2002 24V with a bad VP44 for under a grand you might pick it up and put the P-pump on it for the cost of custom injection lines ($400) and have a pretty potent setup. Otherwise buying a good 12 valve in the $1000-$1500 range may be the cheapest route to get a solid running engine.

You don't need to do much to one of these to get great power from them. There's no need whatsoever to "build one up" to get 350+ HP from one. Regardless of miles, if the engine doesn't have blowby I replace the head and upper end gaskets and do a valve job with a mild port job and take a clean up skim cut off the head deck just so I know I'm starting with a good head gasket and sealing valves. Check the cam lobes for pitting if the engine had poor oil changes, adjust the valves correctly, advance the pump timing, install a 3-4K GSK, grind your fuel plate to a conservative profile to start (you can always go more), upgrade the HX35 to a 14 or 16CM exhaust housing, run 330HP marine nozzles for good clean power for heavy towing or go to 370HP nozzles if you like your truck to smoke and annoy people, a 4" mandrel exhaust system, the biggest IC you can fit with mandrel 3" plumbing, a 195 thermostat and you're done.

IMHO, as far as Cummins swaps into Ford and GM products go the transmission choice and build is more in depth and costly than the engine. If you want an auto plan to spend 2-3 times on the project than a stick. If you want an NV4500 (that holds up) plan to spend double what using a ZF will run you.

Looks like you beat me to the punch Dustin! Hey thanx again for the 6X6 recommendation!

 

[averagef250]

You're welcome! Hope the 6x6 avenue works for you.

The mechanical 5.9 Cummins HP recipe is very proven and straightforward. You can even screw it up pretty bad and still have something that puts a big smile on your face. The thing to realize is just how far these engines were derated in order to not blow the **** out of the rest of the dodge they were installed into. I'm utterly flabbergasted when I run into someone who has owned a mechanical Cummins dodge for a couple hundred thousand miles and left the engine completely stock thinking if they turn it up there will be some sort of devastation that insues. You can melt one of these things, but man is it hard. The 12 valves will handle some pretty severe EGT's and abuse before letting go. Never met anyone who managed to scatter one of these things that wasn't wholeheartedly satisfied with the engine's performance and lifespan. I've run them pretty hard and the worst catastrophy I can take credit for is a few popped headgaskets and cracked heads.

The all too common situation is where just minor tweaks "on the cheap" ends up costing a fellow a small fortune in differential, clutch or transmission work.

 

[Classicfordguy]

Wow, all that sounds awesome, tons of great info, I don't understand it all but will soon. Is there a book or some more articles you guys can recommend beyond those mentioned that I should read to learn more about these engines?

I haven't had a chance to really look the engine over yet but when I was unloading it I noticed the rod cap was not on the rod and there was no stud left in the hole so who knows it could have just come loose. (its probably all trash I'm never that lucky) or someone may have messed with it already, though the oil pan looks like its not been off in a while if ever. I do hate fram filters, who knows why so many people still think they are good.

I did pull the valve cover of the cylinder that broke and both push rods were gone, dunno if someone took them out or if the piston trashed the head. I hope to get a chance this week to look it over better, pull the pan, look the whole thing over and get numbers off stuff.

How do I know what pump I have? What turbo do I have, is it better than some? Where would the 53 on the block, were they prone to cracking(I think I read that somewhere)?

My goal is to make my truck road trip worthy, fun to drive(AKA lots O power) and have the ability to pull pretty much anything. I rebuilt my 7.3 idi last year and still could hardly pull my crappy 30ft camper and college buddies to the races at much over 60mph without melting. I have a ZF42 5 speed in it now and was planning to keep that till i break it then maybe get a ZF6 as I think someone here recommended??? (do they use the same adapter plate?)

Thanks so much for the input and recommendations, keep it coming. I'll post up what I find when I tear into it.

-Rob

 

[dairieman36]

the 53 block was mainly an early 24 valve problem and even then only 1 in every 8 or so fail (crack)... as far as turbo and ip go since its a 95 its got the 160hp pump and more than likely the hx35 turbo which is a fairly good turbo

 

[ameristar1]

Get the service manuals from Cummins for the B series, and get the Bosch manuals for the fuel injection system. These little engines are incredibly strong and the combos can make a towable and driveable 600hp with 1200 ft/lbs of torque. Until you pull the trigger on something like that, you'll realize how not ready you are for it! And this is on the mild end! Keep going with the boost and fuel and you'll have 800-1000hp. And all on a stock bottom end. Oh, and the fuel economy will knock you socks off, because you don't have to gear the truck the same way as with an IDI. Try 3.55s or numerically lower, and your goal is to hit 1600-1700rpms at cruise speed with the stock cam. Do the calculations and make it good.
Even if you were to keep it down to 450hp at the wheels, you're still looking at 800-1000ft/lbs of torque.

 

[averagef250]

2.2 lb/ft per HP is the general rule for B series Cummins torque.

The 053 blocks are a 98-2001 or so issue. Many late 12 valves have the 53 blocks, a 95 will not have one and regardless if it does or not the block is trash.

The 7.3 diesel ZF 5 and 6 speeds use different adapters. The six speed has a deeper bellhousing to work with the increased crank offset to allow for a larger converter lockup clutch in the auto trucks.

The 6 speed won't fit in your truck without floorpan modification.