Re-Torquing Head Bolts

[chillman88]

Now I don't know, so I'm just tossing the idea out because you got me thinking....

I think the water pump has an unused plugged outlet, if not, I know it has an outlet for the heater core. I'm thinking maybe that could be plumbed to an auxillary radiator and then to a water/air intercooler before returning to the system?

Just a thought for discussion.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I think the water pump has an unused plugged outlet,

It does. Mine is no longer unused. That's where I relocated my factory temp gauge sender to so that the needle will still move on the gauge (as opposed to the gauge actually working).

 

[wthompson01]

Now I don't know, so I'm just tossing the idea out because you got me thinking....

I think the water pump has an unused plugged outlet, if not, I know it has an outlet for the heater core. I'm thinking maybe that could be plumbed to an auxillary radiator and then to a water/air intercooler before returning to the system?

Just a thought for discussion.

Correct. And I think that a bypass through a smallish radiator and then on to the intercooler may work well. By the time the water (coolant) comes put of the intercooler it should be close to the same temp as the coolant circulating through the engine. I think it will work and I had not thought about that. It certainly simplifies the whole air to water thing. Might even give a boost to the heat in the winter depending on load. I have always had to put a sheet of cardboard in front of the radiator in winter to get heat.

 

[chillman88]

I have always had to put a sheet of cardboard in front of the radiator in winter to get heat.

That's odd. I'm in NY and I don't have a problem with that. Have you ever replaced your thermostat? I hear about this problem often, just find it odd that mine both work fine? Especially with your location being listed as Texas

 

[wthompson01]

That's odd. I'm in NY and I don't have a problem with that. Have you ever replaced your thermostat? I hear about this problem often, just find it odd that mine both work fine? Especially with your location being listed as Texas

I have not replaced the thermostat. I probably should though. I have no idea if it has ever ben replaced. Something I will look into. I am Some miles SW of the DFW metroplex in Texas. Speaking of cold. When your weather got drunk and wandered down here I saw MINUS 11 degrees the first morning. 11 below ZERO! I have never ever in my 61 years seen it that cold here.

 

[chillman88]

I have not replaced the thermostat. I probably should though. I have no idea if it has ever ben replaced. Something I will look into. I am Some miles SW of the DFW metroplex in Texas. Speaking of cold. When your weather got drunk and wandered down here I saw MINUS 11 degrees the first morning. 11 below ZERO! I have never ever in my 61 years seen it that cold here.

That wasn't OUR weather. We almost never get THAT cold ! We average teens to single digits in the winter and even that's too cold for me!

Whenever you do change it, make sure to use a genuine Motorcraft thermostat. Lots of people having flow issues with the aftermarket ones.

 

[wthompson01]

That wasn't OUR weather. We almost never get THAT cold ! We average teens to single digits in the winter and even that's too cold for me!

Whenever you do change it, make sure to use a genuine Motorcraft thermostat. Lots of people having flow issues with the aftermarket ones.

I was absolutely blown away when I got up that morning and checked the weather station (my private weather station that I actually broadcast to Weatherunderground) and saw the low temp. It's never ever been that cold here.

Oh yes. I have been reading and following the forum for some time now. The Motorcraft Thermostat and Motorcraft ZD-9 glow plugs are now engraved in my brain. I have ben accumulating parts for this project for some time now. And now, soon it will
get started and completed. At least for the moment. I'm certain that there are more projects and repairs to be done. So we go from there.

 

[Booyah45828]

Now I don't know, so I'm just tossing the idea out because you got me thinking....

I think the water pump has an unused plugged outlet, if not, I know it has an outlet for the heater core. I'm thinking maybe that could be plumbed to an auxillary radiator and then to a water/air intercooler before returning to the system?

Just a thought for discussion.

That's the port I'm planning on using.

Wherever you source the water from, it must be located on the engine between the thermostat and water pump so that it's under positive flow, like your heater core, at all times. I originally thought about sourcing from the bottom of the radiator(coldest coolant location) and not running a second heat exchanger, but I'm assuming that you wouldn't get any flow in that scenario. I figured the water at the bottom of the block would most likely be the coldest with positive flow, and would likely never get above 180-190 degrees.

Ironically I've got a blown up cummins gen set outside with an aftercooler, I'll have to investigate it more closely as to how it works and sources coolant.

 

[nitroguy]

.Speaking of cold. When your weather got drunk and wandered down here I saw MINUS 11 degrees the first morning.

Yeah..., sorry about that.

 

[Fision]

I'm not sure if any of you have ever monitored your IAT fully loaded, but it's a lot warmer then what most would think it is, especially if you're not intercooled at all. So using engine coolant to cool it off isn't a real outlandish idea.

In my sig IH4900 I used a 4-prong BBQ thermometer to check ambient, post turbo and post charge air cooler (air to air) temperatures. 10*/1 lb of boost is ballpark for heat added, the CAC removes 85-90% of the added heat when above about 40mph.
So, 70* day, 25 lb boost = about 320* post turbo. Post CAC is about 100*.

obviously, results will vary, but hopefully this helps a little.

 

[Fision]

That's the port I'm planning on using.

Wherever you source the water from, it must be located on the engine between the thermostat and water pump so that it's under positive flow, like your heater core, at all times. I originally thought about sourcing from the bottom of the radiator(coldest coolant location) and not running a second heat exchanger, but I'm assuming that you wouldn't get any flow in that scenario. I figured the water at the bottom of the block would most likely be the coldest with positive flow, and would likely never get above 180-190 degrees.

Ironically I've got a blown up cummins gen set outside with an aftercooler, I'll have to investigate it more closely as to how it works and sources coolant.

These are the issues I’m trying to navigate in deciding how to do an air/water setup for my turbo IDI f250. Eliminating the auxiliary water pump and related wiring, etc. seems simpler. Better??
Please keep us posted on your findings and progress!

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

In my sig IH4900 I used a 4-prong BBQ thermometer to check ambient, post turbo and post charge air cooler (air to air) temperatures. 10*/1 lb of boost is ballpark for heat added, the CAC removes 85-90% of the added heat when above about 40mph.
So, 70* day, 25 lb boost = about 320* post turbo. Post CAC is about 100*.

obviously, results will vary, but hopefully this helps a little.

Those are pretty good charge air cooler numbers, and 25 psi is a lot of boost. I love the thought of making things simpler, and I think using radiator fluid for an air to water would definitely make it less complex. My apprehension is that although a water to air intercooler is more inherently efficient, if you are using radiator coolant that is say 175F, in your analogy above, even if it was 100% efficient your post CAC would be at best 175F. In reality, reasonable efficiencies would yield a post CAC temp above 200F. That's twice as high as your air to air front mounted CAC measured 100F temp.

The reason air to water is popular in industrial applications is the use of a cooling tower, which allows a nearly limitless supply of really nice cold cooling water. In production automotive and truck applications with internal combustion engines and air to water CACs, a separate coolant system is almost always used. Two really good examples are the supercharged E55 Mercedes engine and the 6.7 Powerstroke: both have separate cooling systems for the intercoolers circulated with an electric pump.

Again, I don't want to hold anybody back from fabrication, and I really hope there's something I am overlooking as the simplicity of the use of the existing coolant system is an interesting thought, I'm just not sure I can get past the fact that thermostats generally open at around 195F, which means at almost any point in the system, the coolant isn't really "cool" when it comes to charge air temps.

Just my .02, which usually isn't worth that much

 

[wthompson01]

Those are pretty good charge air cooler numbers, and 25 psi is a lot of boost. I love the thought of making things simpler, and I think using radiator fluid for an air to water would definitely make it less complex. My apprehension is that although a water to air intercooler is more inherently efficient, if you are using radiator coolant that is say 175F, in your analogy above, even if it was 100% efficient your post CAC would be at best 175F. In reality, reasonable efficiencies would yield a post CAC temp above 200F. That's twice as high as your air to air front mounted CAC measured 100F temp.

The reason air to water is popular in industrial applications is the use of a cooling tower, which allows a nearly limitless supply of really nice cold cooling water. In production automotive and truck applications with internal combustion engines and air to water CACs, a separate coolant system is used. Two really good examples are the supercharged E55 Mercedes engine and the 6.7 Powerstroke, both have separate cooling systems for the intercoolers circulated with an electric pump.

Again, I don't want to hold anybody back from fabrication, and I really hope there's something I am overlooking as the simplicity of the use of the existing coolant system is an interesting thought, I'm just not sure I can get past the fact that thermostats generally open at around 195F, which means at almost any point in the system, the coolant isn't really "cool" when it comes to charge air temps.

Just my .02, which usually isn't worth that much

I did a bit of searching. Still need to do more. The air temp out of a turbo can be in excess of 300 - 400 degrees depending on how much compression is happening. I think I am going to try the engine cooling system as the first test. And go from there. Maybe use a temp sender
for charge air temp so that there is a baseline for changes to see what works best. I noticed that you have to be careful with the intercooler size. ie core size. Just because the housing is larger does not mean that the core will be larger. That being said. I am going to try using the engine cooling system for the first iteration and go from there. I will add a charge air temp gauge to the 3 going in due top the turbo. If engine cooling doesn't work well I will go to a small radiator, overflow tank and electric water pump and see what that does. I am NOT going racing or pulling. The goal is a solid truck with the ability to pull a load without having to drive on the shoulder or get out and push.

 

[chillman88]

I am NOT going racing or pulling. The goal is a solid truck with the ability to pull a load without having to drive on the shoulder or get out and push

Exactly how I'm planning my build, what good is a truck you have to stare at the gauges paranoid just to drive. I'm definitely watching what you cook up.

Ideally you would get some baseline temp readings before adding the intercooler, then some after. I'm very curious now having read through this and started thinking about it.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

My apprehension is that although a water to air intercooler is more inherently efficient, if you are using radiator coolant that is say 175F, in your analogy above, even if it was 100% efficient your post CAC would be at best 175F. In reality, reasonable efficiencies would yield a post CAC temp above 200F. That's twice as high as your air to air front mounted CAC measured 100F temp.

The reason air to water is popular in industrial applications is the use of a cooling tower, which allows a nearly limitless supply of really nice cold cooling water. In production automotive and truck applications with internal combustion engines and air to water CACs, a separate coolant system is almost always used. Two really good examples are the supercharged E55 Mercedes engine and the 6.7 Powerstroke: both have separate cooling systems for the intercoolers circulated with an electric pump.

This is why I wouldn't use the engine's radiator is I was going to use a air to water intercooler. The 100* temps that you mentioned that's in front of the intercooler is about the limit I see around here. There isn't very many days out of a year that I'd even see that. So, for most of the year, the temperature of air in front of the intercooler would be lower. If I had a virtually limitless supply of colder air to cool an intercooler with, there's NO way that I'd want to try to cool it with 190*+ antifreeze from my engine radiator.