Pass rear brake locks up

BigRedWeather

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When the brake shop told me an electrical short was causing my brake problem it sounded like they were describing 1 problem. Actually it was 2:

1) My driver side rear brake was adjusted to far in, so this threw the pressure to the pass side brake, causing that tire to skid. I readjusted them and that tire skidding went away. Thanks for persisting on this guys. Didn't make sense to me but now it makes perfect sense.

2) My brake pedal goes down about 1.5 inches before it is effective, but it is very effective with a little pressure. But the EBrake and ABS light come on the first time I hit the brake and stay on until I turn the truck off. My shop manual says these two lights indicate a bad connection, so I've got to trace that down.


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BigRedWeather

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When the brake shop told me an electrical short was causing my brake problem it sounded like they were describing 1 problem. Actually it was 2:

1) My driver side rear brake was adjusted to far in, so this threw the pressure to the pass side brake, causing that tire to skid. I readjusted them and that tire skidding went away. Thanks for persisting on this guys. Didn't make sense to me but now it makes perfect sense.

2) My brake pedal goes down about 1.5 inches before it is effective, but it is very effective with a little pressure. But the EBrake and ABS light come on the first time I hit the brake and stay on until I turn the truck off. My shop manual says these two lights indicate a bad connection, so I've got to trace that down.


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Goofyexponent

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My driver side rear brake was adjusted to far in, so this threw the pressure to the pass side brake, causing that tire to skid. I readjusted them and that tire skidding went away. Thanks for persisting on this guys. Didn't make sense to me but now it makes perfect sense.

If this were the case, I would peel off both back wheels, drums and remove the adjusting hardware. Then I would grease the sliding points, pivots and antiseize the snot out of the adjusters (after taking the apart and cleaning with a wire brush) Check both e brake cabls for rust and sticking, take the top shoe pivots apart, clean and grease them and then put it all back together....one side at a time of course.

Trust me, it seems like a bit of work, but good brakes are important. most of the problems you will have with these drum brakes are seizing hardware.

I JUST went through this same problem with my back DS brake hardware, but I removed both and cleaned, lubed and reinstalled to be sure ;Sweet

The electrical gremlin sounds like it might be fun. Freight_Train mentioned going fairly quick (40 MPH?) and HAMMERING the brakes down to activate the ABS. Hesaid that the module sticks and don't move unless the ABS is activated...maybe a couplee of these will fix'r up....just don't get your morning coffee until AFTER you try the stopping hard repair LOL
 

OLDBULL8

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There is a post somewhere here or on the TDS about the ABS malfunction. To correct it, the guy removed the large plug on the side of the ABS valve and left the spring out, replace the plug and actuated the brakes a couple of times, then replaced the spring. According to him there shouldn't be any brake fluid leak out or very little, you could try that to fix it. If I remember, it fixed the soft pedal also.
 

OLDBULL8

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Here is an article on brake fluids, just in case someone mixes Dot 5 with Dot 3 or 4 .


The Wickedness of Water
The typical RV hydraulic brake system is largely a pump and a series of valves. Brake fluid travels throughout a system of plumbing—brake lines—and under pressure from the brake pedal (and its associated master cylinder) forces other components to shove your brake pads into contact with your vehicle’s wheel drums or rotors. The friction between the pads and their associated dance partners slows your vehicle down, and at the same time produces a huge amount of heat.

Here’s the problem: If your brake fluid is contaminated with say, water, the heat of braking causes the water to boil, turning it into steam. Unlike brake fluid, steam compresses easily, and suddenly your brakes go spongy, or worse, quit working altogether. You’re now at the wheel of 35,000 pounds of steel, hurtling downhill, hoping you’ll find a runaway truck ramp in time.

That’s the worst-case scenario. A more likely, but nevertheless expensive scenario is this one: your brake fluid is contaminated with water. The water slowly corrodes brake system parts. You take your pickup in for service, and instead of simply replacing the brake pads and maybe turning the rotors, you wind up replacing something like an ABS hydraulic unit for $250—plus labor—plus replacing brake pads and turning rotors!

Checking Your Brake Fluid
Keeping an eye on your brake fluid integrity is crucial to preventing expensive damage, or even catastrophic brake failure. First, check your brake fluid level on a regular basis. Some manufacturers have made the brake fluid reservoir translucent, so you don’t need to pull the lid off to check the level. That’s good in some respects, as common brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it will absorb water. If you take the lid off the reservoir and leave it off, the fluid will actually soak up moisture from the surrounding air—not a good thing.

If you need to remove the lid for a look, inspect, then put the lid back on. If the level is low, you should add more FRESH hydraulic fluid of the same specification as is already in the system. Before “popping off” the lid, make sure you thoroughly clean any dirt or debris from it with a clean cloth. Keeping crud out of your brake fluid system is critical.

A drop in the brake fluid level indicates one of two things. First, you may be headed toward a “brake job.” When the brake linings begin to wear out, you’ll see a reduction in fluid in the reservoir. This will show up gradually. However, if you see a sudden drop in fluid, it most often indicates a brake system leak. Don’t mess around with a brake system leak, get it fixed right away.

Brake Fluids by “Flavor”
What about brake fluid specifications? You’ll find DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5 rated fluids at the auto parts place. What should you use? Always use a DOT fluid rated equal to or higher than that which your manufacturer indicates. For example, if your truck, toad or motorhome specs call for DOT 3, use DOT 3 or DOT 4. A “4” rating shows a higher boiling point than a “3.” That doesn’t mean, however, that a DOT 5 is better than a DOT 4.

DOT 5 fluid has a whole different makeup than DOT 3 or DOT 4. The latter are glycol based, while DOT 5 is silicon based. While theoretically the two won’t cause adverse reactions if they meet up in your brake system, they still won’t mix properly. Additionally, ABS brake systems are NOT compatible with DOT 5 fluids. Even if you don’t have ABS, “converting” to DOT 5 fluids is fraught with controversy and questions about “spongy pedal” problems. DOT 5 fluids are not hydroscopic—they won’t absorb water. If water does get into your brake system, it will simply “slug” down to the lowest point in the brake system and mass together. The lowest point is typically in the brake caliper, a spot that gets plenty hot when braking. If water gets too hot, it boils, and brake effectiveness is out the window.

Just being careful about keeping the cap on your brake system reservoir isn’t enough to keep out water. Rubber brake line parts can actually pass moisture from the air into the brake fluid. One industry estimate says that for every year of service, brake fluid absorbs about 1 percent of its volume in water.

Can you tell by looking at your brake fluid if it needs to be replaced? Brake fluid is typically clear or has a yellowish tint. If it looks muddy or murky, then yes, it’s definitely past time for replacement. But just because brake fluid is clear or yellowish doesn’t mean it’s still “good.” At the same time, a darkish colored fluid isn’t necessarily “bad.” Really, there’s no way to tell by looking whether or not your brake fluid has absorbed too much water for safety.

What’s to be done? Always change your brake fluid at least as often as your manufacturer’s service schedule directs. If you take your vehicle in for service, most good brake shops—and a lot of good general shops—have ways to test brake fluid. The simplest system is a test-strip-based system. A strip is dipped in brake fluid and then compared to a color chart to determine levels of fluid contamination. Do-it-yourselfers, we couldn’t find an auto parts retailer that sells the test strips. However, one Internet firm says it sells a kit of 25 strips for around $40. Check out www.gwrauto.com/stripdip.htm .

So before this article comes to a grinding halt, let’s review how you can keep your RV stopping safely: Check your brake fluid levels regularly. Change the fluid at least as often as your rig’s manufacturer recommends. Don’t use DOT 5 fluid in an antilock brake system, and don’t mix it with other types of fluid in a non-ABS system. Finally, when checking your fluid level, keep the lid off the reservoir only long enough to inspect the fluid.
CHANGING BRAKE FLUID
Can you change your brake fluid yourself? It’s not a difficult task, but it is messy and time consuming. Before ABS brake systems, changing the fluid was just an extended “brake bleeding” session. Rather than just stopping the process when all the air was bled from the system, you’d keep going, adding fresh fluid to the master cylinder until all the old stuff was pumped out of the brake cylinder you were working on. Then you’d move on to the next and repeat the process. With the advent of ABS brake systems, bleeding or changing brake fluid became a bit more complex. If you want to undertake the process, follow the directions given in your vehicle’s shop manual.
 

Goofyexponent

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Excellent post Oldbull! There are some things in there that are common sense, but it is still good to have a refresher!!

I have a question about the ABS valve.

What would be the problem in removing it all together? I know that in removing it, that you will no longer have the "benefits" of the RWABS system, but I typically drive every minute of my life in tandem, single axle and tractor trailers WITHOUT abs. I know how the mechanics of a typical non ABS system work and perfer it over the ABS systems.

Every vehicle I owned (minus the 1999 silverado) has no ABS. Even the 1996 F150 had the ABS valve removed and I never had an issue.

Besides the ABS light on in the dash (which is curable), would removing this with a piece of line cause any other headaches?
 

BigRedWeather

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I just finished with the brakes. The cable to the self-adjusters were in place and the self-adjusting wheel turned very easily. I removed all the hardware around the pivots, wire brushed them clean, greased them and replaced them. I wire brushed the areas where the shoe contact the back plate and greaased them.

On my test drive the pedal is real soft and generates no braking until 1 1/2" from the floor. With the truck running, when the pedal is pressed to the floor and released, the brake fluid in the reservoir does not go up or down. The booster is 2 months old, and the master is 1 year old.

Before I worked on the brakes this time I applied my brakes ******* gravel and asphalt to release the valve in the ABS valve. The only thing I have not yet tried that is posted in this thread is to remove the spring from the ABS valve, use the brakes and replace the spring. I will do that next.

Oh, when I pull on the e-brake cables they actuate the brakes- they are on siezed.

Not sure what to do next, other that the ABS valve spring.
 

Goofyexponent

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Now that the rear hardware is ruled out, it's time to check that ABS valve as you mentioned.

First, I would check to make sure you have good vacuum. It don't sound like this is the problem, but rule it out! AFAIK the PSD's use an electric vacuum pump.

Afterwards, it wouldn't be a bad idea to remove the brake lines from the master, and plug the holes where the lines enter. Then try your brake pedal. It should be frim, with no "sagging" or a soft feeling. If the pedal remains firm with no bypassing, the master is good...if it sags, there could be air in there or it is in need of a rebuild/replacement.

If this all checks out, install one line at a time and see if it is the front or rear brakes that is causing the problem.

Did you do any line changes or anything, that let the master run low? Did you have to add fluid to the master at any point?
 

Titojeep

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I had a similar problem when I got my truck. From the appearance, the booster and master cylinder had been replaced, however I had a leaky rear axle seal which caused my brakes to swell and grab. After I repaired the leak (and replaced the pads) I still had the same problem. In a fact, a couple of times my front driver side disk brake would stay partially engaged and heat up. After 4 X's of bleeding the brakes, and taking it out and locking up the brakes (in the rain) I haven't had the problems anymore. Not sure if that's the fix, but I'm still monitoring just in case.
 

OLDBULL8

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Goofy asked this.

I have a question about the ABS valve.

What would be the problem in removing it all together? I know that in removing it, that you will no longer have the "benefits" of the RWABS system, but I typically drive every minute of my life in tandem, single axle and tractor trailers WITHOUT abs. I know how the mechanics of a typical non ABS system work and perfer it over the ABS systems

I personally don't have any experience on removing the ABS valve. Maybe someone else does on here.
 

BigRedWeather

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Got a few more hours this weekend, so I did some more to my brakes...

I took the end off the ABS Valve, removed the spring and screwed the end back on, pressed the brakes all the way down. I did this with the truck off and with it running and I haven't got the cylinder to budge. The valve is a year old: $70 from Rock Auto. Makes me wonder if it is working at all.

I then replaced the master cylinder and am waiting on a help to bleed the brakes. As I was reading my shop manual I ran across the description of the Fluid Control (Proportioning) Valve, which screws into the master cylinder, which allows brake pressure to go to the rear brakes up to a certain pressure, and then applies the pressure to the front brakes to even out the breaking load. This is to prevent the rear wheels from locking up in hard braking situations. It seems a bad Fluid Control Valve could contribute to my problems, though it doesn't explain why 1 rear wheel has locked up.


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