IP Advice/Assist...

[Caver Dave]

Well, after a couple of filter changes, dang near 2 gallons DieselKleen, and triple checking the lift pump... I'm ready to pay the piper.

Brief history: Swapped out both tanks (holes), large qty. of H2O in filter (no light)... won't return to idle, but otherwise runs great for 30 mins, then won't run above 3K rpm after 45 mins, finally begins to "miss" after 1 hour...consistantly

I've found IPs from $295 (fleabay vendor = feedback about 50% good, 50% bad) up to $495 (Diesel Injection Service in Greensboro, NC)...

My wallet would the lesser priced pump and a DYI install... Only thing is I question my ability to swap the IP *AND* get it timed CORRECTLY!

OTOH, I'd LOVE to be able to use it for more than 30-45 minutes at a time , so $495 + $250 (3hrs. estimated charge from local shop for swap & timing) to call it done is also an option... just not as attractive!

So, anyone within an hour (about how long she'll run before crapping) or 2 of Winston-Salem, NC that would assist in an IP swap & time? Will bring your choice of offering!

If not, any recommendations? The guy I spoke with at DIS sounded pretty nonchalant that it was an IDI (I know they do lots of PS work)?
Any comments on the fleabay vendor? Others like DP or MWFI?

 

[Diesel JD]

DIY on the local pump

Can you buy the IP from the local shop and do your own install? If so, go that route. We can talk you through teh install. there are two critical places people mess up. 1) taking the gear cover off and jumping timing(just don't do it) and 2) not reinstalling your injection line clamps whne you put the new pump on(a must) You pay for the pump+ your labor then take it to the shop and pay for 1/2-1 hr. labor for dynamic timing, or if you're nota real stickler, you can just run it static timed(marks lined up) until you have the money for timing. If the gear timing is ok, and the marks are close, you will have it running well enough to run and not damage the motor. But that's just my opinion.
J.D.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

If you have a decent set of tools, time and patience change the IP yourself. It isn't rocket science. In a pickup truck it's pretty easy (compared to in a van).

I'd suggest buying the special wrench to tighten the lines to the IP with the pump installed.

 

[Caver Dave]

Can you buy the IP from the local shop and do your own install?

I take it your not a proponent of Diesel Care & Performance? Seems everything I've read indicate either the IP works fine out of the box or it takes 2-3 tries to get a good rebuild.

Also, if possible, could I run a "turbo" IP and simple cut the fuel back a little? Or do they put so much more that my NA would drowned and start melting holes?

If you have a decent set of tools, time and patience change the IP yourself. It isn't rocket science. In a pickup truck it's pretty easy (compared to in a van).

I'd suggest buying the special wrench to tighten the lines to the IP with the pump installed.

I wouldn't say decent... more like a mixed match, ******* set of Craftsman, SnapOn, MAC, Cornwell, & cheapy "single use" brands
I have done 99% of the work on my Jeep (engine swap & MANY mods), the Ford (t-stat, rear brakes, & tank swap), and our previous 3 DDs (won't even go there) with them & have no issues buying the special "tool" to remove/install the injector lines to the IP. FWIW, the one I saw somewhere looked like a deepwell socket with a cutout (similar to a vac switch socket)... I can appreciate the value of a tool like that!

Just had to slide "it ain't rocket science" in didn't you? (one of my best jeepin' buds favorite lines ). I guess some... OK, MOST of my angst in tackling this is making it worse due to inexperience w/ diesels... breaking/having to replace lines, dropping a bolt down the block & having to drop the pan , etc...

 

[Agnem]

Read the fuel system servicing article in the tech articles section (link in sig below) and see what you think. I bet you could do it yourself.

 

[Diesel JD]

You sound pretty mechanically experienced, but as Mel said read his servicing article on the IDI fuel system. The only really unique tool you need is a 16pt. 8mm or 5/16 socket or box to pull the three injection pump drive gear bolts. I cannot comment on Diesel Care, as you say I have heard good and bad about them. I'ma proponent of local shops adn a local warranty. I cost myself probably an extra $500-700 dollars by doing business with a bargain basement internet retailer. To his credit, he stood behind teh product,a nd I was probably too honest in telling him about my own mistakes with the pump. The cost came when I told him that one of the pump bolts was thrown out when the IP shaft sheared. ia dmitted that I may not have tightened it enough, so he charged me core, met me halfway on another pump. Between that and shipping back and forth who knows how many times, and having timing jobs done over and whatnot it really ate a hole ion my wallet, which would not have been the case had I gone with my local pump builder. I thought this guy was fairly honest, and probably a decent builder, but it takes a lot of practice to get good at building these rotary pumps, and even the best builders build a turkey now and then. Its not a straightforward rebuild sometimes. As for the turbo pump...dop you mean a Ford turbo cal pump or a Ken's IP? I doubt you'd see much difference with teh one for teh factory turbo trucks, but I would run a pyrometer with it and make sure teh EGTs didn't get too much over 1150 and you weren' getting too much smoke.. a Ken's pump delivers A LOT more fuel as would a custom pump from your local shop, and it would just waste a bunch of fuel witha N/A engine, IMO, now if a turbo is in your near future, it might be wortha look.

 

[Caver Dave]

Mel,

That does take a bit of the unknown out of the equation.

A couple of questions though...

1- Is it a given that the injectors should be replaced wholesale? IMO, the truck runs great (until the issues start after 30-45 minutes), so I really have no reason to suspect any problems with the injectors. I was planning to spend any additional $$ to replace any dead GPs and repair the harness (several connectors are corroded/broken at the GP) to help on the cold weather starting... as she's a hard starter. I also have a return line kit from MWFI that will probably go in also.

2- If doing the IP only, can the lines be left attached to the injectors or will they need to be pulled for clearance (to pull the IP backwards)?

3- If no, is it a given that if the clamps are left in place, I should be able to remove the L/R banks of lines intact, re-install them on the "new" IP (tightening fully), and not have any fitment issues (like misalignment, etc.) when re-connecting the injector end of the lines?

4- If doing #3, do I need the "special tool" for the IP ends of the lines or will a decent line wrench prevail?

 

[Diesel JD]

I'll let Mel respond on the other stuff, but i would instead of outright relacement, have teh injectors pop tested. If more than two or three are bad, then replace the whole set. if most are good and you ahev one or two marginal ones then just replace those. It would be ideal and neat to replace all injectors adn pump at the same time, but in the real world, time and money concerns can make that impractical. Be careful with that glow plug replacement. you might try and read Ziggster 40's webpage and his GP removal article and be wary before tackling that job. You cna get decent bullet connectors for teh SS system from NAPA. granted theya re not perfect like the IH/Ford ones but then Ford and IH don't sell them individually. If the connectors are OKa nd just missing the insulation, then just jury rig something to insulate teh connector and use the factory connector. The Ih solid satte system is very intolerant of loose connectors, bad ground wires, dead glow plugs etc. Also you want to use Beru/motorcraft plusg ifyou can, and if you can't some other premium glow plug brand like delphi, wellman, SLM, Bosch, not autolites or champs.

 

[Agnem]

If you have over 75K on the injectors, I'd say get them replaced while your in there. For $200 it's cheap insurance against haveing to work on your motor again in another year or two. It's Soooo much easier to do it with the pump and lines out. No bending anything, which is nice, and makes the lines easier to hook up later. If you do the pump and injectors at the same time, you usually get a zing factor of 100, ,which means you'll think your driving a new truck. Where as matching a worn something to a new something results in a zing reduction. Yes you need to take the pump and lines out as a unit. The firewall/cowl area will give you some grief, but with some wiggling you'll figure it out. Leave the line clamps on, and swap the lines over to the new pump as a group of 4. Much easier to make sure you get them where they are suppose to go. When you put them on, tighten only the bottom 2 or 3 that you know will be impossible to work on with the pump back in. Leaving the others loose, will aid in fitment, and getting your marks aligned. Once everything is bolted back together, then tighten them up and check for leaks immeadiately upon starting. An open 5/8 wrench will work fine for normal tightening, but a flare wrench if you have one is best for getting them tight.