hey yall gotta 6.9 in my boat

Diesel JD

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Turbo is the first best option for any IDI, assuming the engine is healthy, gotta have a boost gauge and pyrometer though. The knowledge about boats is here as you have seen. It would be great if we knew more specs on your boat such as length overall, beam, weight of the hull and how your engine is attached is it an outdrive or a true inboard engine... the other stuff is over my head wet exhausts? Over my head. Also if you go turbo, you might feel the need to replace head gaskets and stud the heads. Once you have a good setup you could get with Mel (agnem) or Ken from DPS for a turned up fuel system. A truly marinized engine is said to have more potential to be turned up due to better cooling. How hard is your engine to work on how it is mounted in your boat?
 
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sorry yall you got it right. Was workin this week end. you fellas are wonderfull im gratefull for all the replys. Im sorry for the no pictures deal I dont have one of them fandagled picture takers all yall got these days im not there yet its just enough to get on th is thing and get it going. she aint nothin specal just bout pretty as a gators backside an smokes like a chimny burnin swamp wood

what yall recomend for a skunkape like me to do to my boat to make her haul a good load?

Lol chimny burnin swamp wood haha turbo would be neat to see, can't wait to see pics! :thumbsup:
 

rjjp

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she aint nothin specal just bout pretty as a gators backside an smokes like a chimny burnin swamp wood

I have a feeling that half the guys on here just fell in love with your boat.:rotflmao
Yes your IDI can and will burn motor oil.
Turbo, Cam, Studs, Head gaskets, and Beer will give it more power...
P.S. The beer is for drinking, not for the boat.
 

FordGuy100

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How much room do you have to work with? Easy to work around the motor, or is it in a sort of "doghouse?"

I would say you could probably rig up a turbo system for super cheap.
 

CaptTom

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Hoooookie dooookie!!!

My backside just slammed shut reading alla yer cuddlefish stories. Even when I worked the Bering Sea..... no cuddling lest one got knifed!

OG here it is, you're the second reason my senses slammed me shut!!

First off, the U/W exhaust is ok..... unless it isn't water cooled while exiting the exhaust manifold.... trying to burn your boat down??

Second, if indeed you did not water cool your exhaust,you will catch fire.... or sink from that huge melted hole in whatever exhaust extensions you've used.

Third, dry stacking exhaust is acceptable, so long as it isn't stacked underwater, AND that the dry stack is wrapped in heat treated fiberglass cloth formerly asbestos- don't use the latter or your lungs will become useless.

Fourth, you can install a straight muffler for a dry stacked system.

BTW- dry stacked is the best exhaust system for any boat because there is no contact with water, there-by giving you 100 times the life of the exhaust system. The reason they aren't used on yachts is.... prima donnas don't like noise or raining smoke. Usually only commercial boats are dry stacked.

Fifth, plenty of IDI's of both 6.9 and 7.3 in boats, again, usually commercial.

Sixth, as mentioned, if your prop is too big, gotta circumcise that thing so you don't lug the engine.

Seventh, turbo and pyro as suggested, add head bolts etc...

Eighth, no... boats are not always at 100% unless you throttle it to such position.... never a good idea for any engine. I'd guess the IDI's are 90%er's.... that is, only drive the boat at cruising or working rpm 90% of the time. The other 10% is split at 5% for almost full throttle or 80% of maximum throttle/HP and 5% at 100% or full throttle 100%/HP.

Ninth, you can use oil as a fuel without any conversions on any mechanical engine, it is the computerized engines that will give you fits, due to the cetane sensors in the fuel system. They'll wreak havoc on everything controlled by computer.

Using oil as a fuel will give you dirtier exhaust... some of the fellas around here would like the extra smoke....the trick is to clean up the oil of all metals and any soot you can squeeze out of it. Both are abrasives. Magnets on very low micron filters will help immensely on pre-heated oil. Once the oil is filtered, it must be cut by anywhere from 66% to 75% minimum with diesel. On your boat, you probably have a couple hundred gallons of fuel capacity, even if you only used 40% waste oil, on a 200 gallon fuel fill cut 40% will save you $320.00 for every 200G fill up at today's prices. Always start off slow or with much lower mix ratio's, you never know exactly how healthy your system is to begin with, especially judging from the apparent lack of experience with both these engines and marine workings in general. Chances are, your local air quality guy will come looking for you with these mixes too.

Tenth, Change the oil a lot in a boat. It is typically recommended every 300 hours or once a year regardless of the hours put on the engine. Oil in boats is subject to a lot of moisture, moisture exacerbates oil oxidation as well as the obvious wetness. If you get the turbo, this is even more true than the more true than evereverever....period.

Eleventh, Since a boat's engine is supposed to produce a lot of low end torque, a blower may be better suited for your needs than a turbo. You are a fisher dragging and hauling net, it is all done at low RPM, where you need the torque. Turbos do not kick in until 1200-1500rpm's, blowers work from 650-1200RPM's. This is where you want your torque curves. I'm also assuming you don't have a planing hull.... no need for a turbo.... everneverevernevernerver! It will never kick in, until you are empty of fuel and no fish aboard, going down wind and swell... THEN! You might experience some turbo boost.


My biggest concern for you right now is your exhaust system. Just based on your limited commentary.... I'm afraid for you because of potential fire or sinking.


Lastly, I'm basing my guesstimates on several factors, you have a shaft drive hooked to a Borg-Warner 1.9 or 2.1:1 transmission, not an out drive, you have a non-planing hull, and you will carry a lot of weight when successful- preventing planing anyway.

Only you can know what is good for your boat. Since this is a truck forum, these fellas will know little about what makes the boat tick, but will know a whole tunna stuff about the engines themselves....most of which will not apply performance wise to boats. Don't get me wrong, these guys will advise/fix your broken engine, they know 'em in-n-out.... but truck v. boat..... whooooole uther animal!

Part of the reason for this is, they're used to a transmission in very low gear to get going, in a boat, you're in top gear from start to finish.... the torque and rpm curves are waaaay different. Chances are, your HP rating is only 170 HP. Imagine towing a car trailer with a semi-truck on it in a 1984 6.9l pick up, starting in third gear.... this is what is expected of your boat.

Not trying to dampen your performance requests, you can upgrade performance, but, gotta start from a real point for real success.

If you were a "sport" fishing boat around 26'-28' or so, center console, then I'd say best speed with that engine, turbo's, an older Mercruiser C-Drive with a lower end duo-prop conversion is around 14-18 knots tops!(14-18knots = 16.1-20.7 MPH)

I'm guessing your boat is more like 32'-36' in length, soft chine, transmissioned with 1.5 or 1.75" shaft and 16" propeller pitched to 14", you have a small house on her and a bunk or two with small head, stove and refer. Nothing go-fast about whatcha got....no matter the engine.

The good thing about the 6.9l N/A is, if you drive her gentle, she will sip fuel.
Use the tuning tips on this site between glow plugs and injector performance and you will make money, not buy fuel.

Forget about the turbo, make some good money and buy a newer used Volvo 41G 200HP marine, a nice little Cummins BT210 or an older 3108 Cat 210HP. All three very reliable fuel sipping getcha home marine engines. The Cat may be a little big to fit in your current hole though...it is an 8 cyl engine waaay bigger than the 6.9. All three can fit up to your Borg-Warner.
 

rjjp

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Eleventh, Since a boat's engine is supposed to produce a lot of low end torque, a blower may be better suited for your needs than a turbo. You are a fisher dragging and hauling net, it is all done at low RPM, where you need the torque. Turbos do not kick in until 1200-1500rpm's, blowers work from 650-1200RPM's. This is where you want your torque curves. I'm also assuming you don't have a planing hull.... no need for a turbo.... everneverevernevernerver! It will never kick in, until you are empty of fuel and no fish aboard, going down wind and swell... THEN! You might experience some turbo boost.

Good point right there, even the waste gated turbos take until 900-1000 to light, and that's only at full throttle, the blower does make more sense, but I still say a typ4 cam.
 

CaptTom

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rjjp,

Can't ever disagree with an appropriate cam for the job at hand. In my Chevy 350 engines used in the past, I've used larger trailering cams that give me low end torque for towing boats. They pretty much suck at the top end, reducing speed by as much as 10 knots or 11.5 mph. The upside is, when a gasoline engine is cammed for low end torque and it is coupled with a diesel engine out drive(lower gear ratio in the out drive's transmission) the pulling capability is incredible enough for competitors to stare in wonder as to just how the heck can I do what I do....... dummies!! :rotflmao :D

Why I suggested the blower only is, it seems like he didn't necessarily want to tear down his engine, but was looking more for bolt on stuff to increase his performance. When we look at what he's asking for, the best solution to me appears to be bolting on a properly matched blower..... another reason Detroits use them for their larger vessel installations, sans turbo's. Their use was initially used in military applications, where their work boats are heavy and built for big power needs, not necessarily speed. Combining two stroke power with a blower creates a huge low end capability. They didn't start turboing Detroits until they asked for more power in planing boats used in combat.... then they twin turbo'd a bunch of stuff "on top of" the blowers!!

Since the 6.9 is a four stroker, we can only give him good torque in a bolt on situation with a blower. He could also turn up his pump and utilize larger injectors(basically bolt on power and would burn his diesel thinned oil better), but then his concerns over fuel consumption would be compromised. Since his boat is more than likely not a "planing" hull, there is little reason to install a turbo...he'll never get the thing to spool fast enough to be efficient. Oh sure.... the diesel drags use turbo's and blowers, nitrous, water inject etc., but really, a short heavy pull kills many of those engines within feet of the start line.... we're talking reliability and the ability to walk home off the dock after a day at sea. The tractor pullers get to walk home no matter where they end up, the sailor cannot.

Pulling the engine to install the typ4 cam is a great idea, but requires several days of down time, which a commercial guy cannot do without compromising his income...unless out of season. Camming the engine is best done when in the necessary rebuild phase and off season. I'd also stay away from trying to up his rpm's. Unless he's trying to win races, best leave that out of the equation, reliability is what a commercial guy needs. I'd also do the recommended machining to accept the larger head bolts as suggested earlier, sometimes on boats, one may need full power for longer than recommended and there's no need to see your own head gaskets on deck when they're supposed to be on the engine decks.... or looking at the tops of piston heads outside the blocks from hydro-locking :puke: This is not good for anyone on a boat. Doing a tear down at sea on a small vessel(smaller than 50') is not a pleasant task... been there done that...doing a rebuild is out of the question on a vessel smaller than 100'(nowhere to store spare blocks-n-heads). Now you know just one of the reasons sailors swear more than most. -cuss

I too would like more info from our shrimper buddy, but he seems a little scarce in his own thread. I'm more interested in photo's of his exhaust system. What really scares me is his fire potential than is trying to get his engine super powered. :eek:
 

Late_99_psd

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Good point right there, even the waste gated turbos take until 900-1000 to light, and that's only at full throttle, the blower does make more sense, but I still say a typ4 cam.

A turbo would still be good in his aplication, he just needs a smaller one, with a larger waste gate.
 

CaptTom

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A turbo would still be good in his aplication, he just needs a smaller one, with a larger waste gate.

Good point, but is the cost worth the benefits? Will he save enough fuel to pay for it?

A smaller turbo v. a larger blower, wouldn't the benefits be about the same?

Would the extra few pounds add enough boost to justify the cost? Could the turbo help him at cruise speed, around 1300-1700rpm? If he's only getting around 11 or 12 knots best speed anyway, the extra boost may only get him 12-14 knots better.... and that's with near full throttle. Cruise on his vessel may only be 7-8 knots.

BTW- what is top rpm on a 6.9?? That may help me understand a little better what may happen on the water.

He suggested getting more "power" out of the engine. This to me means he's having trouble pulling a working load.... that is nets and gear in the water. If he's a net shrimper v a trapper, then he's got a few thousand pounds of weight to overcome while dragging, even if the gear only weights 500 pounds. The drag of that gear through the water is tremendous resistance.... hence my earlier comparison of trailering a semi behind an F250 with a 6.9l N/A. "Power" in this case is low end torque....not upper end HP where we get speed....remember, torque usually drops off way before rpm and HP ends. We need to produce torque, torque, torque. It has to happen between 650 and 900 rpm. Since he's "lugging" or killing his engine while pulling(Again I'm making the assumptions with his limited statements), this all happens at the low end. There is no clutch to rev R's and drop to jerk a load, even if there was, the water resistance would just keep him in the same situation. Nor is there a way to pre-spool the turbo with clutch in to build a little "pre-boost"(small as it is).

Don't get me wrong on the turbo..... luv 'em!! I'm saving up for a Hypermax for my 1990 7.3l, but sometimes, more can be pointless.

You guys have got some great points. Love to hear more as this is near and dear to what I do for a living.... it's also of interest to way more than the few of us responding here... look at all the views!

LOLOL!!! Who knows, maybe it's because everyone likes a train wreck and they've come to see my inanities?!!! LOLOLOL!!!! cookoo
 

towcat

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depending where he sourced his motor, the IH factory setting is 2800 rpm.
if the motor was removed from a ford, the ford pickup setting is 3400-3800 rpm. in a ford, the sweet spot for fuel economy is 2000-2500 rpm. but don't get me wrong, these motors will run pinned to the governor all day long. with 5.13 gears in a f450, there is no choice if you want to keep up with traffic.
 

CaptTom

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Thanks towcat,

I'm still learning these engines myself.

And no Dawg,

he didn't give us really any info, most of my commentary is off the cuff and guesstimating based on 30 + years as a professional mariner, on my knowledge of fishing vessels, towing craft, military vessels-both combat and utility, yachts, fishing boats-sport, commercial and recreational, commercial fishing and ships auxiliary/mains/hydraulic engines. From diesel and gas engines which top rpm can be 50rpm.... no that's right, only 50 rpm high torquers like in cargo ships and old Gray's Marine diesels, to top RPM of 4500 in a diesel, like some of these newer high speed modern recreational engines or top rpm of 5000 in an old 1987 6cyl Mercedes I own.

I'm no expert on any one engine, mostly a systems survivor. Gotta make the bastreeds run when there ain't no choices. Since they all run the same, for me, it becomes an issue of what do I want or expect out of my power house?

Do I need it to do heavy work, go fast or somewhere in between?

Reliability is always my fallback position, again, I don't want to be a Gilligan. I tend to power up and make things very efficient, but not so much so that my stuff blows up all the time.

This is why I'm so interested in this fisherdewd. From the gitgo, I think he was sold a boatload of shrimp bait. Now I'm interested because I want this good ole boy to be safe and still get some profits out of his rig with some simple, and less expensive power-ups that won't wreck his budget nor his engine, that he relies on for his income. If he's already taken a soaking, no reason to give him bad advice or costly upgrades that may be great for a truck, but pointless in a boat.

I may be waaaay off-base with this fellow, but after so many years of hearing the stories of my customers problems, his tone and limited questions are the same as any other from one with limited knowledge. If he really knew his engine and boat, he would've asked more specific questions... doncha think?? He doesn't appear to know where to start.
 

CaptTom

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Shoot!

Almost forgot towcat,

those rpm ranges will definitely allow for a turbo, provided he is properly trannied*** and propped.

Now we have to figure out how to get him trannied so he will reach the rpm band width while pulling a near dead load or when fully loaded with shrimp, to engage the turbo. We already know we can produce low end torque with a blower to get him to the turbo range, but we need to also know, where does he need all this torque?? Pulling net or transiting? We need to know what he wants it to do.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can make him a 40 knot boat that he can pull Poseidon's gates off the bottom with.



***Caveat here.... when I mention trannied, I don't mean the social definition, I mean the mechanical definition. ;p
 
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