Help with ZF5 clutch kit

[fields_mj]

Putting a LUK clutch kit and solid mass fly wheel (P/N 07131 and LFW127) in the truck. Actually, my mechanic is. I dropped it off Monday night, and expected to get it Wed after work, then it was Friday, and now its next Tuesday. For the last day and a half he's been trying to get the pilot bearing in, and can't get it onto my trany. He said the plastic key fits in it pretty snug, and fits the old fly wheel pretty loose, which is expected since its worn out. He said it's like the pilot bearing is slightly undersized and he simply can't get it to go on. He's tried everything he can think of including a 5 ton enerpac, but it just won't go in. He's put everything else together one piece at a time to make sure it fits, but he just can't get the darn pilot bearing to go in. Is there a trick to it? Is there a modification that should be, or can be done that will allow them to fit? He's about ready to throw in the towel, and I'd really like to get my truck back so that I have something to drive back and forth to work in....

Thanks,
Mark

 

[79jasper]

What do you mean "put the pilot bearing on the trans???"

It goes in the crankshaft hole. Then the clutch and pressure plate go on, using the alignment tool to keep the clutch disk centered.

Has your transmission been changed with a different year model?
Pretty sure there's a difference in diameters from say a 88 model zf-5 to a 94+ psd zf-5 on the pilot bearing.

 

[fields_mj]

Sorry, you're right. I should have said crank shaft. Nothing on the transmission has been changed in the past to my knowledge. Is there a way that I should be able to tell if it's the correct year?

 

[79jasper]

IIRC, should be able to use the data plate on the transmission.

87-94 is a zf s5-42 and the case number is 1307.
95-98? Is the zf s5-47 and the case number is 1317.

Edit: Just saw this. May be something to check. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f30/ever-see-pilot-bearing-280779/

 

[fields_mj]

I'm going to see if he can get me the actual measurements of the parts that aren't fitting together. If he can't, I'll grab some of my stuff from work and stop by the shop and do it for him so that I can decide what to have him do next.

 

[79jasper]

Sounds like you doing it is the best idea yet.

 

[kawamatt]

Don't have an answer for you, but if you can get your mechanic to take the clutch kit back off, have him measure the OD of the crankshaft hole, then measure the OD of the input shaft snout. Then search out a double rubber sealed ball bearing instead of the non-sealed needle bearing that comes with most clutch kits.

For reference only, the 351W in my F150 takes a 6003 bearing. According to rockauto, the pilot bearing for a 97 F350 with 7.3 is P/N D8TZ7600A. This also crosses with with newer trucks according to Tasca. http://www.tascaparts.com/parts/ind...A&make=Ford&action=oePartSearch&siteid=213668 An ID of 0.672" is 17mm and an OD of 1.378" is 35mm. This corresponds to a 6003 ball bearing as well. I would measure first to be sure though.

 

[riotwarrior]

Whoa...best pilot bearing would be the kevlar one! Look into it.

Remember bearing in crank, flywheel on crank on top of bearing in crank IIRC.

 

[79jasper]

+1 for Kevlar.
That's what I've always heard and read...

 

[fields_mj]

As a follow up, I purchased the LUK kit and the associated single mass fly wheel. I was going to buy it from RockAuto, but I ended up ordering it from Amazon because I could get it faster, and I needed it faster. The mechanic had one heck of a time getting it in. Took him over a week. Needless to say he lost a significant amount of money on that deal. The clutch is extremely loud when there's no or very little load on it. If I had it to do over again, I would order everything from South Bend. One of our maintenance guys at work has a couple of trucks that he pulls with, and that was his recomendation (again, after the fact). I spoke with them on the phone, and I'm confident that they would have been the better choice.

Anyway, thought I would report back on my findings...

 

[jaluhn83]

I've got a LUK single mass and have never had a problem with it. Been through at least 2 pilot bearings (just replaced the clutch kit as part of the engine rebuild) and had the trans off and on several times.... never had an issue.

I can also say that there is no difference between the early and later ZF5 trannies - I'm running a S5-47 currently and it fit together just fine with the LUK.

2 possibilities I can think of - damaged/defective bearing or operator error. Personally I would try fitting it up without the clutch installed and see if it'll fit that way. Then maybe try it without a pilot bearing, or with a different pilot bearing.

Could also be something odd not working right, like a backwards throwout bearing. Sometimes the weirdest things cause problems.

 

[fields_mj]

I've spent enough $$ on the tranny already. I'll just drive it like it is. Besides, I may have developed a much bigger problem in the last few days. Power is going in and out, lost some coolant the other day, and I'm not so sure that I haven't picked up a little extra oil in the case reciently. The coolant may have been going down over a long time. It was fine at the last oil change (near as I can remember), but I had to add 2 gal to it on Monday after nearly over heating on the way to work. Seems to be holding but now it has a cloudy appearance. I run Fleet Charge, and it's always been a clear purple in the past. Now I can't see the guts of the radiator when I take the cap off and that has me a little worried.

 

[metalminded]

If this guy has been trying for two days it might be time for a new mechanic....

 

[fields_mj]

Two days?!?!?!? Try two weeks.... Needless to say, this ordeal cost him my future buisness. Unfortunatly he's the only reputable mechanic of any kind in the county and happens to be about a mile from the house. Apparently my truck is just over the limit for his lift, so he did everything on the floor (not my problem). If it weren't for the fact that he's had my truck in there twice already this year, I'd be a little more understanding. I gave him 3 chances to turn the job down, at which point I would have driven it to an actual transmission shop. He was sure he could do the work, but ended up having one heck of a time getting the crank to slide into the throw out bearing. I think that was it anyway. Been long enough now I'm starting to forget the details. Either way, it was that last inch or so that he couldn't get. Of course once it's torn apart and sitting in his shop, I was pretty well hosed until he was done with it.

 

[rowingdude]

If he's having that much trouble, advise him to yank the motor out and do it on the floor.