Heater box flap location on vans?

[Cubey]

I may end up being in some hotter places next month, due to a delay in me leaving the south. Someone has retrofitted the R12 AC system with R134a fittings at some point. Whether or not it was done properly (full system purge etc) or not, I don't know.

Before I spend $20-35 on trying to charge it myself, I'd like to check the seals on the lap for the heater box. I'm aware that the heater core always gets flow, and the control opens/closes a door to stop the heat.

I can't say that I hear the AC compressor come on, but maybe it has no pressure so it fails to. Or maybe t the engine just drowns it out.

There is a difference in air temp when it set to cold vs hot, so I know the door is operating, but if it's 100% sealed off, it's hard to say without seeing it.

Is it something easy to access on an 85 van?

 

[genscripter]

On my 1988, even with a functioning air vent valve system, the heater core is such a hot element, that it wasn't letting my evaporator work well. So I put in a simple valve system on my heater core lines so that I could just shut off my heater core flow in the Summer. Then in October, I just open the heater core valves so the cab can get some heat. It allows my AC system to blow a lot cooler.

 

[Cubey]

On my 1988, even with a functioning air vent valve system, the heater core is such a hot element, that it wasn't letting my evaporator work well. So I put in a simple valve system on my heater core lines so that I could just shut off my heater core flow in the Summer. Then in October, I just open the heater core valves so the cab can get some heat. It allows my AC system to blow a lot cooler.

Oh, wait a minute. I just remembered, there is actually a vacuum controlled heater valve on a heater hose.

This:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../e-350-econoline?q=Heater+Control+Valve&pos=3

I would have to visually inspect it with heater on/off to see if the lever has moved but yeah. I wonder if there is a door in addition to that.

 

[jayro88]

Oh, wait a minute. I just remembered, there is actually a vacuum controlled heater valve on a heater hose.

This:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../e-350-econoline?q=Heater+Control+Valve&pos=3

I would have to visually inspect it with heater on/off to see if the lever has moved but yeah. I wonder if there is a door in addition to that.

You have one of those on the front heater core hose? That is news to me. I have one of those in the supply heater hose going back to my rear heater core. It closes when the controls are turned to AC and is open at all other times.

I was thinking about putting in shut off valves for the from heater core like Genscripter has, but so far I haven’t had any issues with not being able to cool off the cab adequately.


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[Cubey]

Yep. The additional info on the part linked even says that it is for "Without Auxiliary Heater".

I inspected it when I replaced the heater hoses a little while back. My memory is swiss cheese so I forgot about it. But yes it's definitely there. I somehow never took a picture of it, and I don't feel like doing so right now.

Here are the controls. Presumably, it is closed on the two "AC" controls and open on the four "HEAT" ones. However, there is definitely a door also, you can hear something moving with typical resistance on the lever when going between cool and warm.

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If I want cold AC, I will just have to spend $30 on a quality can of "stop leak" refrigerant with a gauge, and hope it works.

 

[genscripter]

You have one of those on the front heater core hose? That is news to me. I have one of those in the supply heater hose going back to my rear heater core. It closes when the controls are turned to AC and is open at all other times.

I have the same rear circuit shut off valve as well, it's up by the underside of the engine ceiling on the supply-side of the rear heater core hose. When I did my turbo install, I removed the thing, because it didn't work anymore and I had to replace my hoses to the back:

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Link: http://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/tur...all-for-the-7-3-idi-in-a-1988-ford-clubwagon/

If I want cold AC, I will just have to spend $30 on a quality can of "stop leak" refrigerant with a gauge, and hope it works.

I've never had luck with stop leak. I've only got my AC to seal up by replacing parts and parts and part and parts and parts..... it's kind of annoying, because it's a luxury item and not totally necessary this close to the ocean in Los Angeles, but every time I drive across the country, it's nice to have the AC working at it's best. The manual heater core shut-off valve i put in probably decreases my front AC by 5-10 degrees F. That turbo really puts off a lot of heat on the doghouse, so every degree is worth it in the desert.

 

[Cubey]

Yours is positioned much different. My heater core is very near the grill, with both hose connections up top. My valve is to the side and behind of the alternator. It makes for easier hose replace at least. Yours is horizontal where as mine is vertical.

Stop leak is worth a shot since its within the better, larger cans that come with a gauge hose. Who knows when it was last charged too. The retrofit fittings don't exactly look new, so it could be 10 years since it was charged. Around that time is when it got a newer RV water heater and fridge, so its possible it was around then, when it was comverted to r134a and last charged.

 

[Cubey]

Yeah, I don't think the compressor is coming on. It's probably got no pressure. I ordered this for $20 with free shipping on my order over $35. It's about $26 in the store for a similar one so yeah. The other stuff I ordered was clearance or very cheap RV stuff that I need anyway, so it was a good deal. There were only 2 left (1 as of this post) so I grabbed it up. They were selling out in the past few days as I thought about it.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/2C1MVJEOM47J

I'll post an update once I get it and see.

 

[jayro88]

Yeah, I don't think the compressor is coming on. It's probably got no pressure. I ordered this for $20 with free shipping on my order over $35. It's about $26 in the store for a similar one so yeah. The other stuff I ordered was clearance or very cheap RV stuff that I need anyway, so it was a good deal. There were only 2 left (1 as of this post) so I grabbed it up. They were selling out in the past few days as I thought about it.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/2C1MVJEOM47J

I'll post an update once I get it and see.

To test to make sure the compressor will run you can jump the low pressure switch momentarily and watch it. You should see it engage. Just run it for a few seconds though since there isn’t anything in the system.


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[Cubey]

To test to make sure the compressor will run you can jump the low pressure switch momentarily and watch it. You should see it engage. Just run it for a few seconds though since there isn’t anything in the system.

How do you go about it? Engine on, ac selector off, jumper it, then turn on ac selector? Or will jumping it make it come on without the AC selector on?

 

[genscripter]

hmmmm.. Before you start pumping this full of R134a gas, you should figure out if you have a leak.

If your clutch is not engaging, it could be mainly from 2 things: no power to the clutch or no pressure in the system. There is a pressure switch on the dryer that closes the circuit allowing the clutch to engage. You can jump the switch to just test to see if your clutch is willing to engage by turning the engine on, turning the AC to high, and then pull the connector off the pressure switch on the dryer, and then jumping it with a short wire. If your clutch engages, then you know your AC clutch at least is getting power. Don't run that for long. It's just for verification.

If you have power, then you should check how much pressure is in the system. ANything under a certain amount will open the circuit dryer pressure switch and shut down the AC. If it has moisture and/or atmospheric air in there, then the AC pump will burn out and cause other damage to the entire AC system.

The redneck way to check pressure is to take off the high-side cap (the bigger diameter valve) and open up the Shrader valve for a split second. if it blows out freon, then you have some kind of pressure. If it's silent, then you likely have zero pressure, which is typical for any 1980's vehicle that hasn't been run for a few years. the seals get brittle and dried out, which causes the freon to leak out. They recommend you drive your vehicle once a month with the AC to "moisturize" or exercise the seals some, to prevent this, but who does that.

The right way to check pressure is to buy a set of AC gauges like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/R12-R22-R1...m26170e01d5:g:xggAAOSwZtNa0Px5&frcectupt=true

That'll tell you right away without polluting the atmosphere with a negligible amount of harmful gasses.

If you have a leak, the proper method is to fix whatever is broken. More than likely, the R-12-to-R134a adapter is leaking, and replacing that will resolve the leak. Then you need to rent an AC pump and pull a vacuum on the system to boil out the moisture. Also, if your system was sitting at atmospheric pressure for a while, that means the dryer is F'ed and you should replace that as well. After pulling a vac for a few minutes, let it sit over night. If the pressure holds, then you are good to do a final vac pull for something like 30-60 minutes to completely remove the moisture in the system. If it still doesn't hold a vacuum, then you need to start locating busted seals and replace those. They lines typically look like a glossy or silvery oil where the leak occurred. Keep replacing seals until it hold vac pressure for at least a day.

Then you should be good for putting in more freon. It's much cheaper to find the leak using a vac pump, rather than throwing can after can of freon into the thing just to have it gone by tomorrow morning.

 

[jayro88]

How do you go about it? Engine on, ac selector off, jumper it, then turn on ac selector? Or will jumping it make it come on without the AC selector on?

Engine running with AC selector on. Then jump the low pressure switch in the engine compartment while watching the compressor to see if the clutch engages.


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[Cubey]

Hmm, OReilly has AC rental tools, including both the vacuum pump and the gauges, at "some" stores. It's about a $300 deposit ($100 gauges, $185 vacuum pump, plus tax) for 48 hours. I guess I'll wait and see if the compressor kicks on or not. If not, then the freon will go back. If it does, I will consider if it's worth dealing with or not. I might just throw in the freon and hope for the best, in the short term. It might be throwing $20 down the drain but it's a 50/50 shot, I figure.

I'm planning to not be anywhere hot where I am driving all the time. My roof AC works, and I could technically just run my generator while driving down the road and let the roof AC run, but that costs about $1/hour in gasoline. It's handy for hot days when off grid if it catches me by surprise.

I will be going back up to SD for the summer where I'll have electric for $150/mo and it's not very hot there, mostly.

 

[genscripter]

It might be throwing $20 down the drain but it's a 50/50 shot, I figure.

If the PO didn't maintain that AC system, I'd say you have a 1 in a 100 shot that putting in a can will work.

Even if they did maintain the AC, it should be holding pressure now, and since it isn't, I'd say you have a 1 in 20 shot putting a can will work.

 

[Cubey]

The germlin has returned, where the blower won't come on at all. There is no pattern to it. Someone it'll work for weeks, then it won't for weeks. Sometimes it'll suddenly come back (if switch left on) while driving, but not always.

I don't know where else to check for that beyond what I have already. I should probably replace the missing "module" fuse, whatever that's meant for.

So unless I can keep the blower working, I can't test, much use, the AC.

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