Fuel pressure regulator

[bigpanda16]

I ran a Holley blue marine pump on my old crew cab before I knew y'all ran reds. It freakin flew, I mean it was fast. Those are 15/16 psi unregulated if I'm not mistaken.

 

[leswhitt]

I think you are over estimating how much fuel returns from the IP and from the Injector caps...I ran my engine on a engine stand with a electric pump strait to the IP at 5 psi measured at the IP with the IP return and all the injector caps ran into one line and when the engine is at idle the return just dribbles fuel...when held at 2000 rpm its running about a cup of fuel per minute. If you T into your return line where it increases in size right at the rear of the engine you will be fine....You said your pump runs 60 or 70 psi...But at what volume? the pump will only get to that pressure if you restrict its flow. If the pump is returning a significant amount of fuel you won't build high pressure. Just make sure there is enough return flow to keep from over pressuring the caps...maybe you could return some of the flow back to in front of the pump just use a T to make sure all the air returns to the tank and only return filtered fuel back to in front of the pump with a check valve to be sure to make it pressure sensitive. The fuel pressure would have to overcome the check valve spring before it would flow back to the inlet side. we use a similar system to set minimum pressure on the race car....

The PSD pump will run 65-70 psi at 35-45 gph and that is not with a restricted flow, that's just what it's rated at. Although mentioned above, I will not be pushing this volume or psi through the injector pump or injectors, only the 8 psi from the regulator. My setup will be tank>pump>regulator, and there'll be a line coming off of the regulator and going back to the tank. Accounting for the 6 gph that I'll burn up going down the highway, that's still 39-40 gallons/hr that oughta pump through my dedicated return line from the regulator. As for the return line coming from the injectors, it sounds like your tests showed ~3ish gallons per hour at 2000 rpm? If i went the 3 port pollak route, that'd be 40ish gallons per hour that would transfer from one tank to the next via the return line.

All that said, I'll probably just use a pump and timer and use my second tank strictly as a transfer tank. That'll simplify my fuel intake, fuel returns, allow me to pull from both a bed and saddle-mounted tank, and be the cheapest to boot.

 

[racer30]

But if you where to return down the stock line you won't have a tank fill problem...The 35 to 45 is open flow test rating not including filter restriction and line flow...I have a pump that is rated for 11 to 14 psi and 36 gallons open flow... after sucking through a pre filter at 15 microns and pushing through a 2 micron racor filter I only see about 4 psi at idle dead head to the IP... so I have decided to use a holly style gear pump with a adjustable regulator built in to the pump body...with a 110 gallon open rating with a return system using a stock style return orifice to remove air before the IP... Then I can adjust the pressure to be 5 or 6 psi at the IP after the filter restriction is accounted for...Just a thought.....

 

[bbjordan]

Why don't you just run the return from the regulator back to the inlet of the pump?

 

[mblaney]

Why don't you just run the return from the regulator back to the inlet of the pump?

I would think that recirculating fuel like that would heat it up a lot. Better to dump it back in the tank and use cool fuel.

leswitt - I am with the KISS crowd. The pulse type pumps are very reliable and would be much simpler for you to use. I don't see where you will save much money by using additional hardware trying to make the high pressure pump work. For $100 you can get a pulse pump and you are pretty much done. If you add a second tank, one pump and a pair of solenoid valves or two pumps and one solenoid valve and you are done. I would just plumb the two tanks together as was suggested.

Pulse pump advantages: Low current draw, only pumps fuel that you need, self priming (to several feet), quiet, high reliability. The Walbro pump that I use is a marine pump rated for 1,000,000,000 or so hours .

 

[leswhitt]

I would think that recirculating fuel like that would heat it up a lot. Better to dump it back in the tank and use cool fuel.

leswitt - I am with the KISS crowd. The pulse type pumps are very reliable and would be much simpler for you to use. I don't see where you will save much money by using additional hardware trying to make the high pressure pump work. For $100 you can get a pulse pump and you are pretty much done. If you add a second tank, one pump and a pair of solenoid valves or two pumps and one solenoid valve and you are done. I would just plumb the two tanks together as was suggested.

Pulse pump advantages: Low current draw, only pumps fuel that you need, self priming (to several feet), quiet, high reliability. The Walbro pump that I use is a marine pump rated for 1,000,000,000 or so hours .

I need to read up on the pulse pump, this thread is the first time I've heard of them and don't know how they differ from a regular pump.

As for KISS, I already have a new PSD pump and spares since I use them on my other truck(s). With this setup, I'm out of pocket for a $20 Ebay regulator and $10 for a few feet of return line, and I'll be good to go. BUT, if the PSD pump won't prime the engine, it's not going to work for my situation anyway. I still don't know why it was said that it wouldn't prime, what does a pulse pump do that a steady pump won't?

 

[riotwarrior]

I need to read up on the pulse pump, this thread is the first time I've heard of them and don't know how they differ from a regular pump.

As for KISS, I already have a new PSD pump and spares since I use them on my other truck(s). With this setup, I'm out of pocket for a $20 Ebay regulator and $10 for a few feet of return line, and I'll be good to go. BUT, if the PSD pump won't prime the engine, it's not going to work for my situation anyway. I still don't know why it was said that it wouldn't prime, what does a pulse pump do that a steady pump won't?

Look into a thread by Genlightening Carrier pump group buy is the title IIRC

Those pumps are quite satisfactory for these engines and don't require a custom redux of the entire fuel system. KISS man...KISS these trucks are just that simple!

JM2CW

 

[leswhitt]

Look into a thread by Genlightening Carrier pump group buy is the title IIRC

Those pumps are quite satisfactory for these engines and don't require a custom redux of the entire fuel system. KISS man...KISS these trucks are just that simple!

JM2CW

I think this is where I'm getting stuck, the only difference between what I'm planning and the Carrier pump is an extra regulator, not a bunch of custom stuff.

Next week I'm planning the install, will take photos, and will give honest posts about whether it was more work than I thought, how it works, etc.

 

[riotwarrior]

I think this is where I'm getting stuck, the only difference between what I'm planning and the Carrier pump is an extra regulator, not a bunch of custom stuff.

Next week I'm planning the install, will take photos, and will give honest posts about whether it was more work than I thought, how it works, etc.

My point...is ...

If you just use a Carrier (or similar pump) and have a failure of your in bed tank setup you won't overload the regular return line setup if forced to go back to it.

Over pressure of stock system can and likely will wreak havok on running of truck

Keeping it super simple means adaptability and one less item in the chain that can fail.

 

[mblaney]

Think of the pulse pump like this:
A bicycle pump that you pull up on the pump handle and it is spring return. the spring force is what regulates the output pressure; when the handle is all the way down a little bell rings to tell you to pull it up again. If there is no flow (head pressure) then the pump handle will reach the bottom of it's stroke so you don't pull up again. If there is flow then the handle will lower at the required rate until the little bell rings.

The only difference in the electric pump is that the solenoid contacts are closed when the piston bottoms out, triggering a new cycle. The really nice thing about this is that there is only power used when fuel is needed, and the higher the fuel needs, the faster the pulses. The electric 'whine in the tank' style is on 100% of the time.

The pulse pumps (probably diaphragm) are positive displacement with efficient check balls; that is why they are self priming. The motor type probably use a vane and don't create vacuum well.

 

[leswhitt]

My point...is ...

If you just use a Carrier (or similar pump) and have a failure of your in bed tank setup you won't overload the regular return line setup if forced to go back to it.

Over pressure of stock system can and likely will wreak havok on running of truck

Keeping it super simple means adaptability and one less item in the chain that can fail.

OK, now I understand what you mean. I guess my next step is to research the reliability of regulators. If I have to run a fuel pressure gauge (to monitor the regulator), that's another added expense and another link in the system...

 

[leswhitt]

MBlaney, thanks for the explanation. With your Walbro, do you run it hot all the time since it knows when pressure is required?

There's an interesting read about the Walbro's and Volkswagen TDI users, they've found that under WOT their pressure is dropping down to 1-2 psi on a 7 psi system. Do you have a gauge where you can monitor your PSI under WOT?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264050&highlight=stealth+tdi+walbro&page=1

 

[War Wagon]

I would think that recirculating fuel like that would heat it up a lot. Better to dump it back in the tank and use cool fuel.

leswitt - I am with the KISS crowd. The pulse type pumps are very reliable and would be much simpler for you to use. I don't see where you will save much money by using additional hardware trying to make the high pressure pump work. For $100 you can get a pulse pump and you are pretty much done. If you add a second tank, one pump and a pair of solenoid valves or two pumps and one solenoid valve and you are done. I would just plumb the two tanks together as was suggested.

Pulse pump advantages: Low current draw, only pumps fuel that you need, self priming (to several feet), quiet, high reliability. The Walbro pump that I use is a marine pump rated for 1,000,000,000 or so hours .

What Walbro do you use? Good review from your experience?

 

[mblaney]

The part number for my pump is in my signature. I have it running off the IP shut off solenoid. When the IP is powered on my electric is also. I also have a manual override switch - very handy for priming or to steal a little fuel for 'liquid boyscout'.

I use the IP power to activate a relay; main power comes from the fender mounted power solenoid and is fused.

My pump cost me $120 in Canada. I think the Carrier pumps are a little less expensive. I have used the Walbro for three years; last night was the first time I serviced it - took the filter off of it and cleaned it.

 

[War Wagon]

I guess I should read.