Front springs?

[Tim McKay]

This is on a 93 F250 4WD.
In researching this, I read that if the front springs have a “Frown” they are worn out. I assume these are toast?
If thats the consensus, my plan of attack is: Order a set from General Spring and get an extra 1” of arc on them. I have read the Dana 50 TTB can handle 1.5” of lift before you need to get into the drop brackets for the axel links. I dont want to get into that, therefore the reason for specifying 1”, so as not to run into trouble if I go the max 1.5”. The springs I plan on using are the stock rate spring for the Diesel F250 truck.
What do the experienced experts think? Viable plan?

In addition, I plan on having the axle pivot bushings replaced. This should help with leveling the truck a little bit.
Thanks in advanced for sharing your knowledge.

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[79jasper]

IIRC, they come with negative arch. But looks like you are on the bump stops.

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[Scotty4]

Ford factory drawings show frown. Most stock trucks that I've seen are frowning. Engineers...

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[Tim McKay]

I measured a 1/2” from bump stops. Does anyone think thats closer than should be?

 

[david85]

I'd say that's too close. Eyeball the front of the truck and compare the front tires to the rear. Do your front tires have a negative camber like this?: /----o--\

In addition to the other items already mentioned, check the bushings at both ends of the leaf springs. In particular, the top of the front shackle (the end that goes inside the frame). This is prone to wearing out, due to how small it is compared to the other bushings (See attachment for comparison between used and new - Item 5K316 in Skotty's earlier post).

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[rhythim]

Yeah, those are most likely toast. My '85 sits about an inch off the bump stops and definitely rides low in the front. Next big purchase for it is a new pair to bring it back to stock height.

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[OlyGreenMonster]

When I rebuilt the suspension of my old forest service truck, the inside metal insert inside the front spring front bushing on the passenger side was in contact with the metal of the spring, just like in the picture David85 posted. It had worn completely through the rubber. I didn't realize it until I unbolted and dropped the springs because it's hiding inside the pocket in the frame.

 

[Scotty4]

When I rebuilt the suspension of my old forest service truck, the inside metal insert inside the front spring front bushing on the passenger side was in contact with the metal of the spring, just like in the picture David85 posted. It had worn completely through the rubber. I didn't realize it until I unbolted and dropped the springs because it's hiding inside the pocket in the frame.

Just did my front bushings and most were metal to metal. Rides much higher now.

 

[Tim McKay]

Well, mine dont look as good as David85, so that answers the question there.
Any reason I should not have them put 1” extra arc in them? I cant think of any reason, but I am affraid of what I dont know.
Thanks for all the replies.

 

[david85]

Well, mine dont look as good as David85, so that answers the question there.
Any reason I should not have them put 1” extra arc in them? I cant think of any reason, but I am affraid of what I dont know.
Thanks for all the replies.

Too much spring arch and your wheels will have positive camber: \---o-/
Too little spring arch and you wheels have negative camber: /---o-\

Unlike a solid axle or A-arm suspension, the twin traction beam camber will change, depending on the ride height. So again, you need to make sure your camber is correct and then decide what to do. If the wheels look like this (no visible camber): |---o-|, then the camber is good the way it is, and I wouldn't mess with it.

If you want more clearance (lift), then you can get some from the springs, but may end up with positive camber. Some of this can be corrected with offset ball joints. It you want more lift, you'll have to modify the axle pivot points (AKA, lift kit).

 

[Tim McKay]

Davis85, and that gets to the root of my most important question.
Yes I have read that the adjustments of the camber are very limited. Are you saying that the approximate 1.5” of lift from
l—-0–l that I have found mentioned in several posts is not accurate, and by arcing new springs for an additional 1” lift might leave me with \—-0–/ ?
This is actually the most important question I am asking in the OP that I am trying to get confirmation on, and this answer is only acquired thru experience.
Thank you for taking time to respond.

 

[david85]

Davis85, and that gets to the root of my most important question.
Yes I have read that the adjustments of the camber are very limited. Are you saying that the approximate 1.5” of lift from
l—-0–l that I have found mentioned in several posts is not accurate, and by arcing new springs for an additional 1” lift might leave me with \—-0–/ ?
This is actually the most important question I am asking in the OP that I am trying to get confirmation on, and this answer is only acquired thru experience.
Thank you for taking time to respond.

If your front tires are vertical right now, then any amount of lift will produce positive camber: \---o-/. It's only a question of how much, and if the camber adjusters have enough range to compensate.

Someone else will have to confirm on their F250 TTB, but from what I remember reading years ago there should be about 3" of metal to metal clearance between the bump stop pad and the frame, with roughly 1 to 1.5" clearance to the rubber bump stop. This would work out to roughly 3" of tire travel (since the motion is greater at that end of the beam). My old Twin I-Beam setup had 1.5" to the bump stop and camber was a hair positive. But the 4wd front ends may have a different suspension travel, so I can't be 100% sure of the exact travel figures mentioned here.

If I were to guess, your current springs are sagged by about 0.75" (give or take 0.25") and new stock springs for a diesel will likely correct that without adding any extra arch. But if your numbers from the OP are correct (and it's possible they are), you could go for 1.5" clearance at the bump stops then be able to fine tune the wheel camber using the ball joint adjusters. It looks like those adjusters are already installed, looking at the upper knuckle.

My advice would be to aim for 1.5" at the bump stop and then align everything. You might get away with a little more lift, but TTBs can be a pain to setup right once you modify them.

 

[Tim McKay]

Following up on results for future researchers.
I spoke with General Spring before ordering, they will not, and do not recommend anyone else adding an extra 1” of arc to the F250 springs because they are tapered springs.
So, I essentially returned the truck to stock set up. Stock diesel springs with new shackles, and the Energy Suspension bushings for the pivots on the TTB axle.
This yielded a clearance of 1” + at the bump stops, and about 1.5” to 1.75” lift on the front of the truck. This yielded a nearly level truck, with about 1” difference between the top of the tire to the top of the wheel opening, front and back. Good enuf for us. You can barely see it, and only if your looking for it.
If I wanted to further level the truck, I can thing of 2 further actions without resulting to having to use the drops on the TTB front end.
1) this truck has the larger towing capacity (8500?) so the blocks on the rear springs are taller than normal, I believe by about 1/2”. Using standard F250 blocks, or even F150 blocks should level the truck perfectly.
2) The other method was suggested by General Spring. Cut the center part out of 1 leaf on the old springs, and bolt it on to the new springs that were supplied with the center bolt. The springs in the center are approximately 3/4” thick. They told me this is “legal” and safe because they are bolted in place. Not like using a block that can slip. I chose not to do this.
Another note, the truck definitely rides like an old F250 now. Previously, it rode better than my 2001 F250, smooth as silk and impressive. Clearly the springs were soft.
Since its back to stock, the wheels are l—0-l

Thank you for everyone sharing their knowledge, it definitely helps me make decisions and a path forward.
Hopefully this post with the final results will be of benefit to someone.