Finally asking for help on this one

[cdude20]

Hey y'all. So I'm new to the whole IDI thing. I bought a 1989 F350 with the 7.3 in December. It has been running like a top until about two months ago when it started going downhill. I have been researching my butt off trying to figure this thing out but I have not been able to figure out the exact problem.

The symptoms?

It takes 15-20 seconds to start, even after glow plugs. One glow plug cycle or four, does not matter. It seems the throttle position does not matter either.

Once it does start, it blows out a ton of blue smoke that smells like fuel. It does this for like two seconds. I do have a video of this.

I hear a loud metallic knock for about ten seconds once it starts, in time with one of the cylinders.

Occasionally, in the first ten to fifteen seconds of running, it will have a very random pop like a miss. It will only pop twice or three times a few seconds apart when it does. I'm not really sure what a diesel miss sounds like but I'm guessing that is it.

When idling, it puffs out a slight amount of blue smoke that burns my eyes pretty bad but does smell like fuel. I also have a video of this

On acceleration, it smokes bad. Light throttle it smokes white. Hard throttle it smokes black.

It seems to have lost a lot of torque since the time I bought it.

Also, I installed an EGT gauge just outside the number 2? cylinder in March. It's on the driver's side just outside the second cylinder from the front. I'm too lazy too look up the cylinder order right now. But anyway, after driving, letting it idle to cool down before I shut it off, it only gets down to about 250 after like 2 minutes. It used to go down to 220 sometimes as low as 200 on cool down idle. On the highway, going 70 mph, it runs at around 930 to 960. Getting up to that speed at about half to 3/4 throttle it goes as high as 1180, which scares me. I'm not sure what kind of temperatures this engine can take right outside the cylinder.

Now from what I have found through my research online, it sounds like there is air in the fuel system. I saw somewhere that the fuel filter would be low or empty after it sat overnight if there was an air leak. I took the harley to work today so it sat all night and all day, spun off the filter after work, and it's full to the brim. I spun it back on, cycled the glow plugs, and it still took almost 20 seconds to start with all the symptoms I listed above for starting. I have not yet started cracking injector feed lines. Should that be my next step? I'm at a loss for what to do. Can someone please help point me in the right direction? I want my bulletproof truck back lol.

P.S. I work as a mechanic, so I got the full assortment of tools and such and I'll do whatever it takes to get this thing running right again.

Thanks guys

 

[lindstromjd]

Sounds to me like you're dumping fuel into the cylinders when it's not supposed to be there. How old are the injectors and injection pump? You might have a few stuck injectors.

And I'd say safe zone for right outside the cylinder like that with your EGT would be no higher than 1200 for any sustained amount of time (more than a few seconds).

 

[justinray]

It aounds like its a bit retarded, time it and go from there?

 

[OLDBULL8]

I assume you have a remote starter button. From the #1 cyl injector (front passengers side) there is a hose from there back to the filter, replace that hose with a clear line, while cranking observe if any air bubbles go thru there, this will tell you if there is air intrusion from the IP to there. Stuck open injectors can let air in. Since your smoking so much it's possible the engine is loading up when shut down. Sometimes you can feel the steel lines from IP to injectors, if there hot compared to each other. Careful you can burn your hand. I would start there. The IP has a ball check in the output fitting on top.

Check this thread.http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?57953-Wouldn-t-Die

 

[GOOSE]

It sounds like you have a worn pump and injectors, and one or two injectors are sticking. First, do a compression test. Without compression, you get no ignition. Next, test the GP's and rule them out. Simple stuff but just logistical testing and ruling things out. Are your injectors grey? They could be origionals.

All eyes are on the injection system but rule out the basics first. Put a new pump and injectors on a properly timed engine with good GP's, no air leaks, and good compression; you will not be able to keep it from starting. Good luck and keep us posted on your troubleshooting.

 

[icanfixall]

You say it cranks a long time even when the glow plugs cycle. How long does the glow lite stay on. Your plugs are probably burned out is what I'm thinking. White puffs of smoke during cranking out the tail pipe is a sure sign the plugs are shot. Or they are not getting enough power to lite up. Usually the engine main wire harness plug is corroded up and shorts out. Next time you crank to start the engine find the harness connecter and feel it. If it hot you have a corrosion problem. time to bypass the plug and run power directly to the glow plug controller. The two yellow wires in the engine harness are the power to the controller. Crappy Ford engineers felt two tiny wires were better than one heavy wire to the controller. Its actually cheaper to run smaller wires than it is to run one big wire.

 

[cdude20]

The wait to start light stays on for 5.5 seconds pretty consistently. Then I hear the controller click on and off twice after the light goes out, and then I crank it. I did go feel the connector down by the controller on the fender well. Thing is hot as hell right after the truck starts. The wires have seen better days in that area. I do not want to rebuild a heavily corroded harness if I don't have to. Anyone know if engine harnesses are available for these trucks anywhere?

Otherwise, icanfixall, there are quite a few wires going to that controller on the fender well. I think someone used it as a 12v power source for bolting things on. Do you have an idea of how many wires are supposed to go to it and which terminals? The old wiring diagrams on Alldata are not like Ford's fancy new diagrams and are very difficult to read.

I'll be doing the air testing with the clear line later this week after I replace the ground cable on the passenger battery that fell apart at the engine connection. The truck doesn't like starting on only one battery. Good thing I got yellow tops.

As far as the timing goes, would it even be worth it to try and time it with OE (I think, haven't checked yet) injectors and pump still on there after 208,000 miles? I don't know where to get my hands on the tool for it either, at least not in this area (Southeast Wisconsin).

And then for compression, I can get a diesel compression tester, but the guy doesn't have the right adapter for the glow plug holes on this thing. Do any parts stores carry an adapter like that for less than a fortune?

Thanks for all your help so far guys.

 

[SparkandFire]

Problems like this are usually a combination of issues. Especially if things were going well, and started to go down hill.

There are alot of things you can rule out with just some basic tools, time, and troubleshooting.

Like Oldbull said, grab some clear tubing and replace a section of the return line up by the fuel filter with it. I use Tygon tubing because it is resistant to diesel. If you can't find any local, pm me..

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Another quick check is to let the truck sit over night. Before you start it the next morning, pull the fuel filter off and look inside. For what ever reason, an air leak usually vacuums half of the fuel out of the fuel filter.

If you have a automotive test light, you can check your glowplugs by unhooking all of them, clip the alligator clamp onto the (+) battery terminal, and touch the probe to each glowplug lead. If the lamp lights, that shows you have continuity through the plug. An ohmmeter test is a little better, as you can rule out marginal failures, but the test lamp is a good start.

5.5 seconds of glowplug "on" time sounds pretty low to me. The '87 and newer trucks have an electronic controller that attempts to protect the remaining plugs if one burns out. My '94 will give about 4 seconds of burn time with one burnt out plug. With two burnt plugs I get about 1.5 seconds...

Definitely repair the glowplug relay supply wire. I've had a harness meltdown at the connector before. Others on here have too, it's a known issue. Rerun the supply wire and bypass the connector, two #8 AWG wires in parallel is a good solution.

Start with the basics, the simple stuff you can check with hand tools. Look at everything and rule out all that you can before you start throwing parts at it...

 

[cdude20]

That Tygon tubing, is that going to be a hardware store thing? Or parts store like Napa or Advance?

I did already do the fuel filter check. The thing was full to the brim and then some.

I do have a test light, but I prefer my multi meter for sure. What value of resistance am I looking for on these things from the terminal to the block, besides OL of course? I guess the guy that owned it before me put new GP's in, and they do look newer than the other stuff on the top of the engine. But they are definitely aftermarket. He got a lot of the other stuff for this truck from carquest, so they are probably a carquest brand. Anyone had bad luck with aftermarket GP's? I have heard bad things so far with using aftermarket parts on this engine.

How long should the wait to start light typically stay on with good GP's? I'll just use a 4 gauge wire and some copper lugs for the GP relay. I have a ton left over from the demo car building going on right now anyway.

 

[SparkandFire]

OL generally means "Open Line" on a multimeter. That would show a bad glowplug. You're looking for very low resistance, somewhere around 1-2 ohms (depending on the meter, leadwires, etc.)

4 AWG ought to be enough, I did that on the charge wire from the alternator to the starter relay (as you can see from the pictures..)

My black truck had all eight Crap'olite er, uh I mean Autolite glowplugs fried when I bought it. They were all swollen and took a little soaking and a whole lot of gentle love to get them out in one piece. If you have bad ones, replace them with Motorcraft (Beru) brand plugs. I order mine from Rockauto.

 

[GOOSE]

That Tygon tubing, is that going to be a hardware store thing? Or parts store like Napa or Advance?

I did already do the fuel filter check. The thing was full to the brim and then some.

I do have a test light, but I prefer my multi meter for sure. What value of resistance am I looking for on these things from the terminal to the block, besides OL of course? I guess the guy that owned it before me put new GP's in, and they do look newer than the other stuff on the top of the engine. But they are definitely aftermarket. He got a lot of the other stuff for this truck from carquest, so they are probably a carquest brand. Anyone had bad luck with aftermarket GP's? I have heard bad things so far with using aftermarket parts on this engine.

How long should the wait to start light typically stay on with good GP's? I'll just use a 4 gauge wire and some copper lugs for the GP relay. I have a ton left over from the demo car building going on right now anyway.

I usually get about .5 ohms. a bad gp can put you in the meg-ohm range. 10-15 seconds is about normal. It is not uncommon to have low quality gp's go bad real fast. Motorcraft/Beru are the ones you want. I re located my GP relay to the passenger side wheel well behind the battery. I spliced #14 wires to extend the control wires and a #4 wire between the relay's new location and the harness at the rear of the engine. Keeps the controller cool and will be better when dealing with a turbo.

I have gotten small tygon for my chainsaw at my chainsaw repair shop. I would just call around before you spend fuel searching for it. I believe my local Napa has it.

 

[cdude20]

I always say OL means outta luck, lol. One meter I have says OFL. Well you can imagine what that one means. Anyway, Ill check them all later today. Yeah when I worked at the Ford dealer, Autolite was the bane of all existence, especially countless 4.0L Explorers and 5.4L F-150's.

Yeah 4 gauge is a little overkill I'm sure but I got solder plug copper lugs and everything for it so might as well.

Oh Tygon, is that the fuel line that is usually see through brown or orange or whatever? I see that stuff on chainsaws all the time. I just call it fuel line for a chainsaw haha.