Another Swap Question Thread (Small Change)

[crash-harris]

Yes, another swap question thread, but my questions involve swapping from an EFI inline 300 sixer over to a N/A 6.9L, then spooling it. The truck in question is a 1990 F150, manual tranny, originally 2wd, converted it to 4x4 when I was 17 and am now trying to get the '79 D44 solid axle that I converted to 8-lug sold to fund a dually hub D60. It currently has a Sterling 10.25 semi-floater in the rear and the cruddy D44 TTB in the front (they'll have to be babied a but after the swap). Last year I removed the hydro mounts and acquired the perches and mounts for the older solid rubber mounts and installed them.

I have a line on a N/A 6.9 and radiator with an auto tranny, and the ZF5, starter, flywheel, clutch, hydro brake booster, fuel tank filler nozzles, and turbo parts off the truck next to it in the junkyard (along with a GV overdrive unit). I'm planning on pulling the in-tank pumps out and clamping in a filler tube in each tank, as well as getting 2 Summit external pumps (same as the Holley Red, little cheaper) and blocking off the mechanical pump on the engine. I also plan to run the turbo with an intercooler as I will be ditching the A/C compressor and cooling core on the radiator support. I plan to at least freshen the engine and clean it with new gaskets, anything else I should look into?

My questions are about the specifics of the swap.
1.) How similar are the old 300 perches to the diesel mount perches?
2.) Will I still be able to use cruise control and RABS without the EEC in the truck (I know they use their own controllers, but EEC input?)
3.) I disconnected the 300's computer and turned the key, the fuel pump relay still turned on and off as normal, will this still work once I have the 6.9 in?
4.) Will I still be able to use the OEM tank selector switch to flip between the two external electric pumps?
5.) What all is involved in modifying my stock radiator support for the larger radiator of the diesel engine?
6.) And where can I find a full gasket kit for the 6.9L? I have found a "lower conversion" kit, but am unsure as to what conversion the name is referring to.
7.) I have dual battery trays in place, how to I wire in the second battery in a stock Ford way with the way things are wired in the gas EFI F-Series trucks?
8.) Which block off plate do I need for the mechanical pump? I've heard any meant for a BBC. Anything specific?
9.) What are some things to look for as problem areas with used or pulled 6.9L's? This one will be coming out of a 1985 Centurion crew cab, dually, long bed, 4x4 that looks like it was previously owned by a construction company.

Thanks, will post a pic of the truck in question asap (using other people's internet at the moment).

 

[subway]

I cant all of the questions but can point you in the right direction for some. this has been done before if you search out nightmoose that agnem (mels) son built. he used a flairside F150 to swap in a NA 6.9. if i remember correctly he is hitting the 30's for miliage but is 2wd 5 speed.

any BBC block off plate will work, you just want to get one that does not have the chevy logo on it, you will lose 25hp if you dont.

the batteries should be wired in parallel pos-pos and neg to neg to frame/engine.

the core support is going to be fun, they are basically the same on the top. it is the lower support "hoop" that drops down about 6" more in the diesels that makes the big differance. it is possible to splice one together but i think you would be ahead to just pull a good one from a diesel truck. check it over good they like to rot out at the body mounts.

not sure on the in tank pumps, i do remember that was covered with the night moose though. they are set up funky some way on the gassers.

for gaskets if you buy a kit skip the oil pan gasket, these engines came from the factory sealed with rtv on the bottom end, no pan gasket, it is not needed.

for probem areas check around the plug in heater on the side of the block. some of the early castings were thin there and tended to crack out.

 

[typ4]

The engine frame mounts are not even close, you will need to swap in the diesel ones.

I would take out the in tank pumps and run a mechanical. The efi pumps put out a lot of pressure.45 ish.

 

[Diesel_brad]

You are going thru an Awful lot of work to make a 1/2 ton 2wd gas truck into a 3/4 ton 4wd diesel. It would be ALOT easier and cheaper to just buy what you want. They do make it.

Afterall, when you are done, you will still have a 1/2 tone frame under all that work. and legally not able to haul any more weight than a 1/2 ton

 

[trapper]

My F-150 project had a 351 in it, i had to unbolt/cut the gasser perches off of the engine crossmember, the crossmember has a bolt hole on each side to help line up the mounting plates for the diesel......then you just drill out the rest of the holes for the plates in the corssmember, on the drivers side there is a hole in the cm for the gasser oil filter and the plate hangs over that but you should be fine unless you wanna weld in a steel plate to cover that hole, i used F-350 springs that was a 2wd and put them on my D44 4wd front end and it holds the weight fine

 

[crash-harris]

You are going thru an Awful lot of work to make a 1/2 ton 2wd gas truck into a 3/4 ton 4wd diesel. It would be ALOT easier and cheaper to just buy what you want. They do make it.

Afterall, when you are done, you will still have a 1/2 tone frame under all that work. and legally not able to haul any more weight than a 1/2 ton

Truck is already a 4x4. I'm probably going to end up building a 3x3 boxed frame in the future as it looks like one of the PO's doodled all over the driver's side frame rail with a torch while replacing the leaf hangers. He was also towing +8K lbs. with this truck weekly in it's 100% stock form. Planning on grabbing a FF Sterling from the junkyard after the D60 swap up front. They however do not make a std. cab, fleetside long bed, F-Series with a dually D60 up front and rear spacers on a Sterling to run stock HMMWV split rims and 37's. This 6.9L swap is just a stepping stone to a WVO powered 6BT. It's just that the 6.9L swap will only run me about half of what it would for a 6BT around here.

@typ4 - Already stated in the plan, in tank pumps will get dropped and replaced with the Summit Racing equivalent of Holley Red pumps. Just going to reuse the switch if possible.

@Jred - Been searching through all of FSB and Pirate, but always coming up empty handed for a swap thread. I will search for the nightmoose build. I may end up with the diesel front clip, seeing as how my fenders are rusty and the core support is rusted out around the mounts as well. As for the gasket kits, I can't find one. They are all lower end conversion kits (wth are we converting with that) and head kits. I'm not going to reuse the in tank gasser pumps (45-50 psi stock for the 300 vs. 7 psi or so for the 6.9L), just want to know if the electrical switching system will still be useable without the EEC IV in place. I'm just going to cut the pump power wire off the factory sending units and reroute them to the new external pumps.

 

[hesutton]

1.) How similar are the old 300 perches to the diesel mount perches?

I'll try and answer this and other question with a link to the Night Moose build. There are a ton of WebShots Photos on the project as well. Mel may be along here to post up some more wisdom on swapping a 6.9 into a F150 that used to have a 300.

2.) Will I still be able to use cruise control and RABS without the EEC in the truck (I know they use their own controllers, but EEC input?)

See above link, sorry, not for certain, but I would imagine the EEC would not be needed for those to work.

3.) I disconnected the 300's computer and turned the key, the fuel pump relay still turned on and off as normal, will this still work once I have the 6.9 in?

The relay won't care if what pump it is powering. If it's wired up correctly to the new pump, it should be fine.

4.) Will I still be able to use the OEM tank selector switch to flip between the two external electric pumps?

I'm not sure why you'd need two separate fuel pumps. One should do the job. I'd look closely at the Night Moose stuff and see what Mel and Mathias did with supply and return lines on their swap.

5.) What all is involved in modifying my stock radiator support for the larger radiator of the diesel engine?

Again, that is covered in the Night Moose link above and there are photos in the Webshots album of the rad support mods. It will take some fabrication for sure.

6.) And where can I find a full gasket kit for the 6.9L? I have found a "lower conversion" kit, but am unsure as to what conversion the name is referring to.

I've had good results with Reliant Gasket. They're based out of Texas and have great prices on Victor Reinz gasket sets. The full set will come with a oil pan gasket, but don't use it. The oil pan is just supposed to be sealed with silicone. The cork gasket will leak. The intake manifold gasket (Valley Pan) is separate, and they carry it as well. Call them and talk to Kim or John. They will fix you up. You don't get the head dowels with a gasket kit and you need 4 new ones to put the heads back on. Ford item and about $12 for a set.

7.) I have dual battery trays in place, how to I wire in the second battery in a stock Ford way with the way things are wired in the gas EFI F-Series trucks?

Like Jared said, positive termials hooked together and negative terminals hooked together and grounding of the negatives to the frame/engine.

8.) Which block off plate do I need for the mechanical pump? I've heard any meant for a BBC. Anything specific?

Yup, BBC plate will look like the one below and can be found and almost any autoparts place.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

9.) What are some things to look for as problem areas with used or pulled 6.9L's? This one will be coming out of a 1985 Centurion crew cab, dually, long bed, 4x4 that looks like it was previously owned by a construction company.

Be sure to pick up a Haynes manual that covers the 6.9 diesel. It will have the torque sequences for the heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, plus other useful info. The headbolts need to be removed in reverse sequence and in small increments to prevent warping them. Have a good look at the pistons, precups, rockers, lifters, and all the moving parts. Have the heads checked at a minimum for cracks, valve seat problems, valve guide wear, and have the valve stem seals replaced. If you can, have the whole things looked at (crank, block, cam, rods, and so on).



I hope that helps. Ask more questions as you need.

Heath

 

[icanfixall]

Welcome to the forum. The above postings on what to do is correct. Not all your questions have been answered but they will be. No issues with the in tank pumps being removed and a lenght of fuel rated hose on the pickup tubes. Most trucks these days have broken pickup tubes and thats how we repair them. I personally would install a low pressure electric pump just after the fuel tank switching valves. If you install a transcolt carrier electric pump they can be placed in the engine bay and work fine pulling fuel too. Never ever use a rubber or cord oil pan gasket. Garentee they will leak. All Ford or international used was rtv. I have used it for years and never had a leak. Just use an rtv thats quality. I use permatex ultra copper plus. Its great..

 

[crash-harris]

Awesome, thanks for the build link! I just spent all that time from posting (a whole 2 mins? haha...) sifting through all his threads on the truck trying to find the correct one. The reason behind me using 2 pumps is one for each tank. The '90 model uses to high pressure in tank pumps, vs. the previous design of 2 low pressure in tank pumps and one high pressure pump in front of a mechanical switch. my factory system simply switches power to the pump in the other tank and the lines from both tanks are "Y'd" together into one, without the mechanical switching valve. This way I can still have both tanks at my disposal. Eventually, the aft tank will get a heater and be made to handle 175* WVO.

I've done a good bit of work and parts scouting (mostly for other people's projects) so I'll check the the block for cracks next time I make it to the junkyard. My friends and I have been doing repair, modification and off-road fabrication for a few years (unofficially Thor Automotive). I plan to use Factory 4x4 rear leaf springs and hangers set for 6" of lift, lined and setup for hydro assist for the front D60 when I can get around to it. Already have a sag conversion PS pump that will go on the 6.9 that I had for the 300, as well as a York 210 compressor for on board air.

Forgot to mention that the axles are geared 4.10/4.09 with 37's as it is. I'm getting a little excited about getting ahold of this GV OD unit.

 

[crash-harris]

I guess the junkyard that I was trying to pick up the 6.9L IDI from, lost their business license. So now he's just scrapping everything in the yard and I have reports that the F350 Centurion that the IDI was in no longer exists. Hopefully he kept the Gear Vendors unit that was behind it...So I'm still looking for an IDI while I'm doing the 1 ton axle swap. Just picked up a matched pair of F350 Superduty dually axles out of a wrecker. The Sterling 10.25" rear is geared 4.10 already and has a Trac-Lok LS in it with some really grippy clutches, and the front D60 is an open 4.09 with the factory DRW spacers.

I do have a lead on a turbo 7.3L IDI and an all mechanical Cummins 6BT from a medium duty truck. Guess I'll see what is still availible after I finish the axle swaps.