94 F350 dually drum or disc brakes?

Noiseydiesel

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'94 F350 crewcab 7.3 idiT.
Rear brake conversion to the disc brake or keep it drums?
Lets add the hydro~boost conversion on this as well as I already have those parts.
My biggest question seems to be the large friction area of drum brakes or the effectiveness of the inboard rear disc?
As long as we are playing, lets add the 3K Lb camper on top of this machine and drag a 4K trailer behind.

I just ordered the 4X4 conversion parts with the Dana 60 front axle that I already have. Add some super duty springs front and rear and let the good times roll. . .
i did tell the wife I was going to order the parts for the conversion.
I kinda just didn't tell her how much. . . ($3K +/- ?)
She can have a cow next time she looks at the bank account.
Anyone got a place I can park the truck I will be living in?
 

u2slow

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After I hydroboosted my 95 F350.... the brakes were so good I lost sight of the disc thing.

The drum-in-hat parking brake on the rear of the gf's Jeep (rear disc) suck for holding even when fully adjusted. Very similar design to the F350/E350 diffs I have.
 

chillman88

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My biggest question seems to be the large friction area of drum brakes or the effectiveness of the inboard rear disc?

You hit the nail on the head there. Lot's of people swear by disc brakes, but I've yet to see someone who actually HAULS touting discs. Big trucks still use drums for a reason.

If you're building a rock crawler/mud toy discs are good because they don't hold mud.
 

Big Bart

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I don't have an opinion on which is better, never tried a rear conversion. But here is some food for thought.

1) You may need a different master cylinder to take advantage of the disc braking.
2) You may need to add a proportioning valve to ballance front and rear brakes. (More work to install, more to break.)
3) Your rear ABS (As little as it does on these trucks.) would have to be deleted and the light disconnected so it does not trip or set a light.
4) You maybe are pushing your wheels inboard or outboard with a kit or different axle. Likely not an issue if you have stock wheels and tires. But if you have big tires and rims that are close to the fenders that may mean more alterations. Or having to buy new rims with a different offset.
5) Unkown is how they will handle when towing a trailer? Will they be more likely to lock up and cause a slide or a jackknife situation. I have not heard folks complain these trucks won't slow down, skid easily, or jacknife. So what does altering the rear to disc do to the characteristics of the truck when towing?????

I think it also comes down to what you tow and your trailer. If your trailer has good trailer brakes your drum brakes should be just fine. In my opinion drum brakes handle more long hard braking (Down a grade) and handle heat better than disc's do. Also our rear brakes only do say 25-30% of the braking (To avoid skidding.) When you brake the nose and wheels get pushed down and track harder, the rear wheels unweight and loose some traction, thus why they are set to do less. So if you get say 20% more braking on a rear axle with disc, in theory are only getting a overall 5-8% increase on the rear axle. (Because your truck does not use the rear brakes to do 50% of the braking. Results may vary by make and model.)

So I would think if your issue is your trailer is making it hard to stop comfortably. Perhaps it more prudent to add brakes on the second (Perhaps the third) axle of the trailer (Double/Tripple its stopping power.) VS doing a big disc brake upgrade on your rear axle? So instead of making the truck work harder, let the trailer work harder to slow itself down.

Remember jackniffing and trailer sway is often due to the tow vehicle slowing down too fast, in a sense getting in the way of the trailer so it wants to find a new direction to travel. Then the trailer in poor tire conditions may find it easier to push out and around the tow vehicle rather than stop behind it.

Many forget the best way to get out of a trailer sway or beginning of a jacknife is to apply the trailer brakes evenly. (Only the trailer brakes. Not jam them on but apply them fairly quickly. When this happens it sucks to have surge brakes!) So if your trailer is working harder to slow, thus in a sense working to also slow the tow vehicle, it will stay straight in line with the tow vehicle. If the trailer starts to skid, the tow vehicle in a sense is trying to stop the trailer (While it is skidding.) the forward momentum of the trailer will begin to start a jacknife via a circular curve to the left or right to get around the tow vehicle. At some point you can no longer correct and have to ride it out.

Now if your truck had drum front brakes for lots of reasons I would say yes do the front conversion to disc. (You get most of the bennifit of improved stopping power of disc's, your vehicle is much more likely not to pull left or right when braking, no brake adjustments periodically, less likely for a brake lock up in a turn with rain/snow/sleet, etc.) So the pain of doing so, well out weighs the work.
 
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Noiseydiesel

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Wowza! Lot of good replies and the disc are fading into the back ground noise. Then again, I do have 2 other,
8 on 6 wheels, 3/4 ton trucks that could use the change.
I should look into the SD axles for the Sterling 10.25 axle but that would change the wheel bolt pattern and I do like the Alcoa wheels.
 

frankenwrench

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I tow daily with disk rear. My parking brake has never failed and I have much superior breaks with disk rear than I was ever able to get with the drums. I tow 14-17k on the trailer alone and have never had issues the past 5 years as I did with the drums the previous 4 years. And that is without hydroboost as well,although I am not against hydroboost in any way. Still plan on the hydroboost conversion when funds allow.
 

u2slow

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Many Class 4, 5, and 6 MDTs with hydraulic brakes use rear disc... since the mid/late '80s. Most put the parking brake on the driveline though.


I should look into the SD axles for the Sterling 10.25 axle but that would change the wheel bolt pattern and I do like the Alcoa wheels.

There's the 8x170mm factory Alcoa's too... 99-04. Not identical to the OBS ones, but a similar look.
 

Noiseydiesel

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Nice to have OEM rear disc.
This '94 F350 disc option is an add-on kit. The kit uses GM disc pads from a. . . 79 Caddy Eldorado(?)
Compared in physical size to the Ford pads of the current era, they are already undersized.

8X170 Alcoa's might be an option. Now if i can find a set sometime when the wallet recovers from the current expenditure.
 

u2slow

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I always figured if I did a rear disc swap (8x6.5"), I'd want to use the slip-on rotors - like E350 SRW or 01-02 ram 2500.

Probably cut some flanges to mount a factory disc bracket like this guy:
http://www.fordmann.com/F350.rear_disc_brakes.htm

The further oddity with the OBS (SRW) 10.25" is the narrow width - didn't care for that, and discouraged me from sinking much time/effort into disc.
 

79jasper

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Big trucks still use drums for a reason.
Yeah, not really true anymore. Where have you been the last 20 years?
Lot's of people swear by disc brakes, but I've yet to see someone who actually HAULS touting discs.
When you say "actually HAULS," who exactly are you talking about? Anyone I've seen that hauls for a living (hotshot and such) are using trucks like 4500, 5500, 450, 550 and the like. Which have came with Rear Disc for awhile now. Not some 3/4 and 1 ton wannabe hotshots. (Even then, rear Disc have been standard on pickups since around 2000, I guess they did it for no reason?)

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

chillman88

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Yeah, not really true anymore. Where have you been the last 20 years?

Must have been hiding under a rock then. Even our 2011 International has drums.

Even then, rear Disc have been standard on pickups since around 2000, I guess they did it for no reason?)

There's two different answers there and it's kind of apples to oranges. You cannot compare drum brakes in a 16" wheel to disc brakes behind 19.5 wheels. There's a lot more room in the bigger trucks and you can fit a lot more surface area with a bigger rotor. I'm talking specifically about 3/4 and 1 ton trucks when I said that because 4500s and 550s are not directly comparable. I know at one point GM at least had switched back to drums because they were having so many issues with their disc brakes.

Also, the 3500HD Dodge we have at work has absolutely THE WORST brakes of any truck I've ever driven, and that's since it was new. I can stop with a loaded trailer about the same as it stops empty.
 

u2slow

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Agreed, there is a limit to what you can package behind a 16" wheel. That was a factor in going hydroboost on my F350... no compromise on rotor size for wheel size. Chevy ran hydroboost on all 1tons since the 70's, so it seemed the obvious thing to improve.

AFAIK, Chevy's backpedal on rear-disc was for the light/cheap end of the pickup market. Cheapo ABS is easier to implement with drums. Ongoing parking brake issues can cost them in warranty.
 

frankenwrench

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It was cheaper for me to use the whole rear end off of a 2001 3/4ton to put on my 1991 3/4 ton for the disk rear brakes. Both ford. Got 3.73 gear out the deal too. My fuel mileage went up as well over the 4.10 and the 3.55. Just my experience.
 

IDIBRONCO

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It was cheaper for me to use the whole rear end off of a 2001 3/4ton to put on my 1991 3/4 ton for the disk rear brakes. Both ford. Got 3.73 gear out the deal too. My fuel mileage went up as well over the 4.10 and the 3.55. Just my experience.
Except that you now have a different wheel bolt pattern on the rear than is on the front.
 

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