how to make real HP with your IDI

[88 Ford]

Justin was building a 6.9 and blew a head gasket iirc. He then tried to machine the block to accept 7.3 studs and ruined the block. After that he re-ringed a stock NA 7.3 and threw it in his Bronco. That is the engine that he dynoed 400hp/800wtq with. It was essentially all bolt ons and head studs. After the dyno, he upped the boost a bit and thats when he found the weakness in the bottom end. If I had to guess he was probably closer to 450hp at that point though. Anyway my point is that the stock bottom ends are pretty strong and IMO capable of 350hp reliably. But again that is just my opinion. Some may think 300hp is the top end. As time goes along we will know for sure.

 

[79jasper]

^ well there you have it folks. Bravo.
That should be stickied. Literally answers every question. No ifs ands or buts.

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[Ford F834]

Guys if you "think" Justin JUST added a turbo and injection pump you are way off base ... He has done plenty of "other work" on said engine and for that I tip my hat to him. He has done what many of us want to do but can't for a bevy of reasons.. Throwing rods is a great way to find out what the bottom end can handle but it that really the way to determine what we can get. These idi engines are simple... Reliable and will get you home. BTW please start talking about crank hp and torque. I see way too many posts here making blanket hp and torque statements but not telling anyone where it was taken. That right there is a big deal... More So than one may think. Personally I do not care if it is rwhp or crank hp. Just find common ground and stick with it.

That particular engine actually was a stock NA bottom end except for file fit 2nd rings and his experimental 5.0 cam. He used Type4's stainless valves, comp 910 springs and ARP studs. That's it. When he dyno'd 401 hp at the wheels (fuel only) it was a spur of the moment thing. He wasn't happy with what his maxed out 2 plunger pump was giving him so he tossed on a DB4 at the event. He timed it by ear. Later when he checked it, he found out it was at 17*!!! When he brought the timing down around 6* and added water **** that's when things started to get real. We don't know ~how real because he didn't get it on the rollers before it ate dust. Russ sat in his Bronco and watched him push 50 psi of boost. The head gaskets held but the NA rods not so much. They gradually bent until one let go.. This was a cheap $200 CL engine and he wanted to find the next weakest link... and he did. The next long block will have modified PSD rods, shaved ceramic coated pistons and hopefully his roller rocker arms and better valve springs. At 50 psi all the pistons had valve imprints on them. Making power and making it last are two different animals. The next engine will be built to handle the power and have a decent lifespan for a performance engine. His 4 plunger pumps and turbo kits can really F up a stock engine. Justin says he will limit boost to ~40 psi with a different turbine wheel next time and thinks he can hit 500 wheel hp on fuel, but will use water **** if necessary. His 180cc pump requires ~20 psi of fuel inlet pressure. When he tossed it in the Bronco he only had stock lift pump pressure, so his total flow at peak hp rpm was more like 160cc's not 180. Keep watching he will get there.

Mind you these builds are not for everyone. That engine is a race/competition engine. Take it for what it is. The 180cc pump does not have the best street manners and would not be practical in a work truck. You would not choose a loping muscle car for stop and go freeway commuting either. It amazes me that people continue to debate the merits of high horsepower IDI's for their tow rig, daily driver etc.... Did no one watch the videos? Did no one notice what 400+ hp looks like behind the wheel or sounds like on the rollers? NOT a work horse folks...

 

[Hydro-idi]

Justin was building a 6.9 and blew a head gasket iirc. He then tried to machine the block to accept 7.3 studs and ruined the block. After that he re-ringed a stock NA 7.3 and threw it in his Bronco. That is the engine that he dynoed 400hp/800wtq with. It was essentially all bolt ons and head studs. After the dyno, he upped the boost a bit and thats when he found the weakness in the bottom end. If I had to guess he was probably closer to 450hp at that point though. Anyway my point is that the stock bottom ends are pretty strong and IMO capable of 350hp reliably. But again that is just my opinion. Some may think 300hp is the top end. As time goes along we will know for sure.

Goes to show....sure these engines can make that kind of hp if you got the bank to back it & know how, but what's the use is it if it's not going to keep you ticking along for another 150k miles. Everything has a limit. When things are beefed up like that, longevity decreases no matter what anyone says. Thx for the info

 

[Ford F834]

Justin shaved down forged PSD rods because they have bigger fasteners than IDIT rods. He also wanted to see if it will work since there are even stronger aftermarket rods made for the PSD that he could use for his P pump build if modifying the stock forged rods works.

 

[satx78247]

79jasper,

Fwiw, I've never seen a real NEED for any more HP than a 6.9/7.3 has with the standard turbo, but everyone to their own poison.

WITHOUT a turbo, I climbed North Mountain in WV in my factory-stock 1991 F-250 while loaded with THOUSANDS of pounds of lead ingots (for reloading ammo) aboard. = Enough that I was certainly over-loaded according the WV L&W troopers. = Had to wait till the Bears returned to their den to "sneak by" & go up to our family's Mountain Lair.
(When I got up to the Lair, the brothers said, "How the H did you get up here without blowing the tires?")

just my OPINION, satx

 

[88 Ford]

^ well there you have it folks. Bravo.
That should be stickied. Literally answers every question. No ifs ands or buts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Um I read the thread that he posted on. Gary mentioned that it was a built engine and it wasn't. If you look at my posts in this thread, I have mentioned several companies and their products. Don't comein a go out of your way to ruin a thread and start stuff. Thank you.

 

[88 Ford]

That particular engine actually was a stock NA bottom end except for file fit 2nd rings and his experimental 5.0 cam. He used Type4's stainless valves, comp 910 springs and ARP studs. That's it. When he dyno'd 401 hp at the wheels (fuel only) it was a spur of the moment thing. He wasn't happy with what his maxed out 2 plunger pump was giving him so he tossed on a DB4 at the event. He timed it by ear. Later when he checked it, he found out it was at 17*!!! When he brought the timing down around 6* and added water **** that's when things started to get real. We don't know ~how real because he didn't get it on the rollers before it ate dust. Russ sat in his Bronco and watched him push 50 psi of boost. The head gaskets held but the NA rods not so much. They gradually bent until one let go.. This was a cheap $200 CL engine and he wanted to find the next weakest link... and he did. The next long block will have modified PSD rods, shaved ceramic coated pistons and hopefully his roller rocker arms and better valve springs. At 50 psi all the pistons had valve imprints on them. Making power and making it last are two different animals. The next engine will be built to handle the power and have a decent lifespan for a performance engine. His 4 plunger pumps and turbo kits can really F up a stock engine. Justin says he will limit boost to ~40 psi with a different turbine wheel next time and thinks he can hit 500 wheel hp on fuel, but will use water **** if necessary. His 180cc pump requires ~20 psi of fuel inlet pressure. When he tossed it in the Bronco he only had stock lift pump pressure, so his total flow at peak hp rpm was more like 160cc's not 180. Keep watching he will get there.

Mind you these builds are not for everyone. That engine is a race/competition engine. Take it for what it is. The 180cc pump does not have the best street manners and would not be practical in a work truck. You would not choose a loping muscle car for stop and go freeway commuting either. It amazes me that people continue to debate the merits of high horsepower IDI's for their tow rig, daily driver etc.... Did no one watch the videos? Did no one notice what 400+ hp looks like behind the wheel or sounds like on the rollers? NOT a work horse folks...

Thank you for the additional info. I do agree with the fact that a higher horsepower idi does change what it is meant for. I guess I should have clarified when I said that. Even in newer rigs, I don't think its smart to go much past a tow tune. It just depends what you use the vehicle for. A regular DD and weekend warrior would be feasible though.

 

[79jasper]

Um I read the thread that he posted on. Gary mentioned that it was a built engine and it wasn't. If you look at my posts in this thread, I have mentioned several companies and their products. Don't comein a go out of your way to ruin a thread and start stuff. Thank you.

Actually I was agreeing with you, smart one.


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[Waystro]

My first idi had a ATS 085 turbo and 3.55 gears
that truck had no problem doing 85
towing a load I could still do 65 in the Texas hill country.
I think for most this is all you would need to be happy with your idi.
Moose pump jr and up
Moose Misters
Typ4 cam
Turbo any of the big 3
JM2CW.

 

[satx78247]

Waystro,

Fwiw, I pulled a 38 foot RV to CA & back twice from TX & also several times to VA, MD & PA, during my days in the Army, using a F-250 6.9 PU without turbo.

yours, satx

 

[Waystro]

Waystro,

Fwiw, I pulled a38 foot RV to CA & back twice from TX & also several times to VA, MD & PA, during my days in the Army, using a F-250 6.9 PU without turbo.

yours, satx

Wow you've been all over the map lol
They are slow on hills but so is my Sub
i don't need speed I'm all about the Torque

 

[Hydro-idi]

Waystro,

Fwiw, I pulled a38 foot RV to CA & back twice from TX & also several times to VA, MD & PA, during my days in the Army, using a F-250 6.9 PU without turbo.

yours, satx

Now that's what I'm talkin about lol. Good old n/a Idi power right there. Bet it was slow going up anything above a 2% grade

 

[satx78247]

Waystro; Hydro-IDI,

YEP, I spent nearly 6 years on what was essentially "permanent TDY" (TDY = Temporary Duty), while a PM/SAS/SSA for USAMPC & USACIDC. = 30 days, here 45 days elsewhere & 120 day yet in a different place. = My friends, from school days, called me "the professional nomad", as they never knew where I might next send them a letter, Christmas card or present.
(I probably pulled the RV for 100K, as I got really tired quite soon of "living out of a suitcase" & at a Holiday Inn or Marriott.)

With my old PU, I had to learn to pick my routes & avoid steep grades, so that I could make good time on the road.
Note: I would bet that my old "Satin" was the "most traveled black tom-cat" in the USA in those years.

ADDENDA: It's been enough years ago that I can tell you that I had the "shortest PCS" (PCS = Permanent Change of Station) in Army history. = 20 minutes or less.
(I had been told to go to a Western State, tell nobody what I was doing, or for whom & to "look into & report upon" a possible "organized & continuing criminal conspiracy". - Upon arrival, I was recognized & "identified" in a LOUD voice by a fraternity brother. - One wonders what the chances of that happening, 800+ miles from home, are??)

yours, satx

 

[crash-harris]

surprisingly, my truck is/was pretty damn quick.
ive stomped my fair share of ricers.
even hung with some PSD's
im anxious to see how the new suspension set up handles and launches.
shes no slouch! and now i have a better turbo to spool with
this was without all of the go fast parts ive already installed/will be installing.
and with my wishbone ive added, i will be trying to pull the left front!

I should have mentioned that the Enterprise at least "feels" like it beats my import's 0-60 time, no turbo...or did before the wreck and following injector problems And I definitely would go all out of an IDI if I built a custom 6 door as well!