A brief overview of a turbo system 'components' in the context of an IDI

[jay22day]

edit: removed informative post because of threats of banning


okay boost class is over i gotta go back to work

 

[jay22day]

It's your keyboard. No one was standing over you to "correct" him. If you don't want to "waste your time" then don't.

i care not to correct him he hardly understands even the basic principles at hand.




Its the members that view the thread that im trying to help/protect


Would you rather a ton of mis information be spread by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about?

Its important to help protect the integrity of this forum. Its a wonderful useful place to get good information from knowledgeable experienced individuals and people like this that think they are smarter than they really are corrupt the reliability of posts on here if we dont strive to correct them

MODERATORS cant do EVERYTHING and be EVERYWHERE so its important to help where needed or where you can.

Stop the spread of misinformation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Clb]

popcorn' I need popcorn!
Lets see if any of the real life working injection guru's care to weigh in on this????
I have heard profesionals in their feild misquote their own words at a tech seminar in the past.
It happens, now we need some more real world discussion rather than a cat fight over the net!
Ok I'm off MY soapbox!

 

[jay22day]

This article was intended to be informative rather than a discussion witch is why its pointless when the person writing it doesn't know what they are talking about.

i don't advise reading this "write up"

this thread was apparently an attempt at a turbo "sticky" full of incorrect information

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?71879-turbos-wastegates-and-blow-off-valves

^^^^^^^ this is an active discussion thread on the topic where you can find correct information and knowledgeable individuals and posts.





again trying to help prevent people from being misinformed and misled

 

[Heide264]

Give me a bit to update this, guys. I'll get any mistakes cleared up and note any difference of opinions.

For the record, I don't bother getting personal over internet forums. I'm past that.

 

[jay22day]

Im not getting "personal" just helping protect the forum, its not my fault your posting incorrect information. You r now going to change your entire post with information from other people, including things you apparently don't understand.. again there is already a thread with such information covered by individuals with a better understand than yourself. Leave it to them to teach and inform others so you don't continue to mislead people.

 

[Heide264]

You dont even knwo what you typed........

I fixed it... As I said I would. My apologies. I never claimed to be perfect and gave a disclaimer right up front. The girlfriend came home in the middle of writing this and I made dinner... Sometimes I don't pick right up where I left off well.

---------they do have boost controlers, the gate is the boost controller, its the spring in the gate that controls the boost pressure (exhaust gate opening pressure)

I figured most people think of a boost controller as a separate device. I'll clarify that above when I get around to it. I didn't know people thought of a wastegate as a boost controller.

------no once again it wont vent the intake manifold, once again you dont knwo what your talking about. and you mean compressor housing not compressor wheel. terminology is important if your attempting to teach and your not in a knowledgeable enough position to be teaching anyone.

I guess normally your throttle blade is before your intake manifold. My bad.

-----my argument is not that MBC are not as easy, the best way to do it is have a gate that you can change the spring, MBC can fail or block up and alow overspool, less things to go wrong if you just have a gate w. a replaceable spring. Pulling a waste gate is one clip and 2 screws................

Some wastegate actuators are sealed. I've never heard of issues with MBCs failing or blocking up. It's basically a spring with a ball at the end. Either way, I still think turning a dial (from the cabin, if you wish to install it that way) is easier and offers you a wider range than spring tension does.

Heide264

"A wastegate has no direct impact on the exhaust housing of the turbo. It's simply something that can be 'added on'. "

------------Absolutely incorrect. This is the most important info when talking about gated and no gated turbos for these trucks.

When designed for these trucks a gated turbo comes with a smaller exhaust housing witch is why the gate is added, its a performance advancement in turbocharging.

This is the most important difference and aspects of these system and the fact that you dont know or under stand how these systems are designed or why goes to show that you jsut need to delete this thread.

I have a Tial wastegate sitting in a box on my shelf downstairs. Give me one reason why I couldn't go stick it on an exhaust manifold of anything out there, space allowing. Some turbos are designed with internal wastegates, some are not. Whichever you pick, it's your choice. You'll find either option in just about any flow/pressure combinations you would want pending flange design and brand. If you choose to use a turbo with a smaller exhaust housing to get some earlier spool up, you'll need a wastegate one way or another. While it seems like a chicken and egg argument here... You pick your turbo based off of your flow and pressure requirements/desires... Then you decide whether you would want or need a wastegate.

You said your an "engineer" in the other thread? this can not be the truth, at least not an automotive or mechanical engineer....

I could tell you I'm a PhD in physics (which I don't)... Wouldn't matter regardless. As I said, I don't care to list credentials. It's the internet - if you think somebody is credible, that's your decision.

use the search button and you might learn something.

I have no issue using a search button, and I have many times in the past. I offered this thread up for discussion. In the future,people can find it with the search button. It has a link right off the top of the thread to the other post, and I noted that is why I started this one.

I didn't intend for the thread to become an argument. I prefer discussions, as they are normally more beneficial.

 

[jay22day]

I have a Tial wastegate sitting in a box on my shelf downstairs. Give me one reason why I couldn't go stick it on an exhaust manifold of anything out there, space allowing. Some turbos are designed with internal wastegates, some are not. Whichever you pick, it's your choice.


Who said you couldn't install an external waste-gate on a pipe?
why did you ask me that questions?


------------------------------------------------------
When the manufactures designs the turbocharger with the waste-gate internally build in, They size the exhaust housing smaller to get faster spool/performance and use the waste gate properly
-------------------------------------------------


so what you meant to ask me is "why you cant put a wastegate on a unwastegated turbocharger setup on one of these trucks?"

You can but what the hell is it going to do????????

why would you wastegate an non-wastegated turbocharger?????????

now your not making any sense at all.........

 

[jay22day]

Heide264

"I guess normally your throttle blade is before your intake manifold. My bad."


---Serially you guess???? you called yourself an engineer in the last thread and said you can do write up and teach people and you dont even know where the throttle plate lies in the internal combustion gas engine???


.........seriously...come on

 

[Heide264]

so what you meant to ask me is "why you cant put a wastegate on a unwastegated turbocharger setup on one of these trucks?"

You can but what the hell is it going to do????????

why would you wastegate an non-wastegated turbocharger?????????

now your not making any sense at all.........

Perhaps because your internal wastegate isn't doing it's job. Perhaps you already have a non-wastegated turbo and it would be cheaper to retrofit an external one. There is nothing special regarding an internal wastegate as opposed to an external wastegate, other than the convenience of exhaust plumbing and some added turbulence inside an internal one.

A wastegated turbo is not designed with a smaller exhaust housing. You are choosing an exhaust housing that is smaller so you can get better spool characteristics. Whether it has a wastegate or not is dependent to the designed exhaust housing size. The dependency is that if you choose a smaller than 'ideal' exhaust housing, then you would require a wastegate of some form to control the boost levels.

---Serially you guess???? you called yourself an engineer in the last thread and said you can do write up and teach people and you dont even know where the throttle plate lies in the internal combustion gas engine???


.........seriously...come on

I made a few mistakes. It happens. If you aren't humble about yourself, you are just being ignorant of your mistakes.

I kept referring to an intake manifold instead of an intake track. Whoops.

 

[jay22day]

so once again your question is:

"Why cant you external waste-gate a non-waste gated turbo?"
-----------i never said that you could not.

What will that doo?????


Heide264

"Perhaps you already have a non-wastegated turbo and it would be cheaper to retrofit an external one."


how will this work????? what will the waste-gate then do?

 

[jay22day]

let me know what you come up with after you google that.

you keep telling me i don't know what Im talking about and your obviously clueless... i was trying to help by correcting your mistakes......and you say i don't know what im talking bout yet your actually the one lacking reasonable educating on the topic.

this isn't an "STI" and your not grasping the concept of how the kits work because they are different from gas car kit.

You can barely if at all seem to grasp the concept of how gas car boosting works and apparently don't even know where vital engine parts are located, you clearly don't understand non gated diesels........

.....i seriously cant waste anymore time trying to teach you what you refuse to learn...

i rebuild entire cars, trucks, motors, add turbo kits.... this is what i do for a living.
something tells me your mechanical ability's truly don't surpass oil changes.... no offense but stick to your day job and stop telling people with much more experienced than yourself that they dont know what they're talking about........

 

[79jasper]

so once again your question is:

"Why cant you external waste-gate a non-waste gated turbo?"
-----------i never said that you could not.

What will that doo?????


Heide264

"Perhaps you already have a non-wastegated turbo and it would be cheaper to retrofit an external one."


how will this work????? what will the waste-gate then do?

Actually a lot of people in the diesel world do that with compound turbos.

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[jay22day]

79jasper absolutely! but he is not talking about a twin (compound) turbo setup hes talking about a sign non gate turbo kit with a "retrofitted" external gate.

 

[79jasper]

I've heard of some doing it with a single also, just not as common.
I mean, why not just get a gated turbo. But imo, if you need a external gate that bad, you need a bigger turbo.
But also depends on driving habits. If you never go over 2000 rpm, you could get by with it.

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